Free at the point of use?

Money buys you what you like. Where would this end? No private tuition for the 11+ exams, no fee paying schools, no first or business class air travel? No ‘best seats’ in the theatre or corporate boxes at the football stadium or Wimbledon?

Those who have money spend it as they choose. I can’t afford any of the above but don’t have issues with those who can and do. I just think ‘lucky them’ and move on.

Really stupid thread

Doodledog so the student loans etc for 5 + years of university don't count? The hundreds of unpaid extra hours they work don't count?

I think they pay their due.

Even nurses have to pay for their degrees now - no one gets trained by the NHS anymore. Not in the way you're portraying anyway.

I think the NHS consultants are allowed to have 10% of their income or time in private practice. Some choose to do this, some don’t.

I have health anxiety. If I had the money I’d have my medics on speed dial.

Keep saying it NellG. Doctors pay for their academic theory training just like any university student, except their initial degree is five years of student loans.

The practical training they receive is offset by the hours of unpaid work they do in hospitals.

They have to pay the fees for all their exams too.

I’m puzzled by the queue jumping stories as the NHS has very clear rules that this must not happen. The medical details of a private consultation can be used to inform NHS treatment, but the rules quite clearly say it can’t be used to bump people up the list.
A complaint can be made if anyone has definite proof.

Blossoming

I have no complaints about the excellent care I had, and am still having, from the NHS. However, my private healthcare, provided by my employers, was able to pay for a room in a private hospital, expensive scans and rehabilitation therapies that the NHS wasn’t able to provide at that time.

I've no complaints either with the NHS. Although I've never had a room to myself, I've had expensive and rehabilitation therapies through the NHS. Most recent has been the monitoring of a growth found following a routine pelvic examination and also emergency surgery and hand therapy, which lasted more than a year and part of this was CBT.

My sister in law, over the past five years, has had three private operations, two of those operations I've had done on the NHS. We compared our experiences and the NHS comes way out in front, the main difference was the care given in the hospital and after it by the NHS.

I'd like to see NHS dentistry sorted out. Nearly 2 million people waiting to see an NHS dentist. I live in the south west and Devon and Cornwall patients are waiting an average of 477 days to see a NHS dentist. I could have my pick of private dentists and get an appointment tomorrow.

grannylyn65

Really stupid thread

Thanks for your input *grannylyn65". Next time I'm going to start a thread I'll check with you first to make sure it's clever enough for you.

Alegrias1 ? I think someone is having a bad day!!!

Missfoodlove

Alegrias1 ? I think someone is having a bad day!!!

Agree Urmston as you say ‘money buys you what you like’. And like you I think ‘lucky them’ and move on!

Muse I think you may have misunderstood my post. At the time I needed the emergency care there were no NHS beds available for me and they found me a place in a private hospital which my health insurance agreed to fund. It wasn’t a question of ‘choosing to go private’. In any case, as I was not conscious the choice would have been made for me.

I recently chose a private (phone) consultation with a specialist I’d researched myself, my GP was out of options for my acid reflux/hernia and it was/is not life threatening. The consultant recommended a drug to my GP which has now been prescribed. I have every confidence in my local NHS surgery who are brilliant and have proven so with a recent breast cancer scare. I’m fortunate, we could afford the consultation, was it right? I don’t know, but I don’t think I deprived anyone else.

It has been interesting reading all the posts, thank you for answering my question.

I am going to say what I think, but first of all let me say that none of what follows is in any way a criticism of anyone on this thread, we all have to make the right decision for ourselves and our families based on what is right at the time.

But I think that private healthcare is an abomination. Those who say you should be able to spend your money how you like and be able to buy better healthcare, what would you say to the people in the queue that LadyGracies’s husband was able to avoid, those people who maybe went blind because they didn’t have enough money to prevent it? And Blossoming, who got the expensive scans and rehabilitation paid for by private health insurance. If she needed them for her health, why were they not available to everyone, regardless of whether they had health insurance or not? And grandMattie’s mum did jump the queue. The people who couldn’t pay had to wait 18 months at least to get the treatment she was able to get straight away.

And the argument that private patients pay for the NHS. I read the article you posted NellG, thank you. But in my view that pre-supposes that a private stream has to exist. It doesn’t. Instead of a few people paying for superior treatment, use our taxes to make sure everybody gets the best treatment they can. Raise more tax if necessary. We should not have to rely on crumbs from the rich man’s table.

If you have more money, you can chose to get a front row seat at the theatre or Wimbledon, or whatever. You can choose a nice hospital room with lovely curtains if you like. Good luck to you. But the fifth biggest economy in the world needs to be able to look after all its citizens’ health equally. Having more money than the next person shouldn’t allow you to choose health over illness. I know this is probably impossible, but we should try.

I also think you shouldn’t be able to pay for a better education, but that’s a whole different thread!

CrazyH, I note you state we have the best care system in the world. Why do you think no other country has ever copied it?

I have really been blackmailed into joining a dental health scheme . We live in a smallish town with one dental practice. With the excure of covid they are doing no routine NHs check ups. I had a tooth problem and was panned off by the dentist who saw me . I knew he did not look at the tooth properly and he said there was no problem . Fast forward a week and I asked to join the health programme . I was seen for a full check up three days later and have appointments to have teeth seen to . You cannot join the scheme until you have a clean bill of health so they do all the remedial work on the NHS before you start reaping the benefit of private care. I have so many problems I will join but DH has gone to the next town and been seen there .

We no longer have private health insurance, but when we did, some 26 years ago, I didn’t notice anyone rushing in to say we could be excused from paying the part of NI or tax that supported the NHS.
Private healthcare means you pay twice, and if you are earning enough to have private health care, you are paying more than lower earners in NI and tax towards the NHS.
I’m not saying it’s fair to have both private health care and NHS, but if all the people who currently have private health care suddenly had to use the NHS, the waiting lists would be even longer.

People in the private wings of NHS hospitals are helping fund the NHS. They do not get access to NHS facilities on the cheap,they pay for everything.

Most NHS consultants do not work fulltime in the NHS but also undertake private work as well. It may be that if a world class surgeon is working in the NHS, he can serve both NHS and private clients best if he does not have to spend hours travelling across London to see his private patients, but can instead use that time to serve all his patients.

Alegrias1, an excellent post.

Alegrias1 I totally agree, and ever since I had that experience I have campaigned and raised funds and worked with various groups to improve the provision of those things that I needed. I write letters, I joined my NHS trust, I respond to Government consultations and generally make a noise. Working with a charity I help people find therapists, give advice on welfare benefits and funding. I try to give them the sort of help I so badly needed. I don’t want to say what happened to me as it would be too outing, but I’m by no means unique. I had a large family and my employers fighting my corner but some people are struggling alone. You shouldn’t have to make a noise or have money to access decent healthcare.

The NHS is worth fighting for and I’m up for it. I’m far from being a saint but I do hate inequality.

It necessarily Mollygo .... if there was no private healthcare provision then all the doctors and surgeons who provide it would work that 10% in the NHS I suppose.

I do see what your getting at here Alegrias in that health care ought not to be something money can buy. Everybody in the same queue. Maybe if the NHS could decide whether it s running a business (Trust boards -v- other Trusts with the money following the patient) or providing a service, that would be a good start.

Also maybe it’s time for the NHS to be leaner? Do less but do it well. Stop printing leaflets and booklets in 15 languages. Stop providing translators for free. (In Spain it’s in Spanish. Don’t speak it? Bring a mate with you who does. No exceptions). Work out a system whereby crutches and other appliances can be returned after use and re-used instead of Elf & Safety saving ‘no’. If the running costs could be culled to a more efficient way of delivery then money could be directed elsewhere - more nurses, speech & language therapists etc. Raise taxes a bit. Work out best practice in other countries - Canada, Germany etc - and tweak our model to be better.

That would be great. A health service for ALL to be proud of. If it was good and efficient there would be no need for private consultations.

If a person gets private health care, they do not give up their right to NHS care, which we have all paid for, via our taxes. Therefore I see no conflict in a mix and match approach. No one jumps the queue, they simply join a different queue. It may be shorter, but it’s different. Some doctors work in both sectors, but they fulfill their contracted hours in the NHS. If they choose to work outside the NHS then, that’s up to them.

How many children's lives have been saved by parents appealing for funds to take them to another country for a pioneering operation that simply isnot available in the UK.

What happens, as in the case in question if the patient has never contributed to the NHS and is, therefore in the habit of paying for all their own health care?

The health care and the queue should be the same no matter how much you pay. They only things that you should be able to pay for is whether you get a private room, better food or other luxuries

They would still be paying for their own healthcare, just in a different place.