Lincolnshire slavery

MaizieD, I didn't say that, and you know it. I am not going get involved in long explanations showing how one poster said, this, another said this and my post was in response to that. I have better things to do.

Its lunch time and I am hungry.

I so agree Terri, quite a few of the North Wales victims took their lives .

There will always be those who abuse their position and no doubt conive to work around vulnerable children, or just children per se, this sort of thing has gone on in some top public schools, particularly boarding schools. What does emerge is that many of the victims carry the scars of those abuses around in their adult lives and some sadly take their own lives. I'm sure if a study was done, and enough data was available, it would show that this is nothing new. I think what all child abusers have in common is that they are cunning opportunists, plan a strategy to corner, abuse and threaten their victim in order to ultimately silence them so they can continue. What is shocking is when the abuse is brought to light and those who should and could help any child in such a predicament dont.

But the same can be said of the white British abusers and those children in homes were vunerable, they couldn't even
Avoid their abusers

gillybob nailed It.

I don't disagree with you with regard to the horrendous child abuse that went on in children's homes. But surely that's a totally different set of crimes/circumstances. All equally wicked but different.

I still fail to see how anyone looking at the names and faces of the "men" involved in the grooming/sexual exploitation of vulnerable white women and girls could not admit that there is a common denominator and if someone genuinely can't well it's not surprising those girls were let down so badly time and time again by the police and social services is it?

As for the Lincolnshire slave gang. They were from the traveling community. Denying it, avoiding the issue on the grounds of political correctness or whatever, doesn't change the facts again it just shows what a difficult job the police and social services have when they have to pussy foot around admitting what is staring them in the face.

Type this in as a Google search.

British childrens homes sexual abuse

Have a look at what a lot of British run children's homes have been doing over the years. Organised child abuse does not seem to be the perogative of any particular ethnic or religious group.

We have had our home grown sexual abuse scandals in our childrens home for years . Look at the links above.

I think I'm worried about people jumping to unjustified conclusions, Chewbacca.

Think you're being a bit disingenuous to be fair Maizie

I am not saying that they weren't 'travellers', gillybob, nor that it's wrong to identify them as such. I'm just saying that a photo will not give you the information you claim that it does.

i.e "but their photographs give away the fact that they are all from a similar faith/background/heritage".

Goodness, MOnica; having an Irish surname doesn't automatically mean you're a 'traveller'!

..... they also all had Irish surnames.

The Lincolnshire gang were from a travelers site MazieD so I think it's safe to assume they are of the "traveling" community.

Who said the judgements were made on photographs? The names of the convicted men (and women) were published.

Calling them Muslims, does not tar all muslims with the same brush. Any more than saying most rapists are men, tars all men with the same brush. I think the majority of people are well aware that these men and others like them represent a very very small proportion of a large community.

Of course some people will blame the whole muslim population for the crimes of a few, but then I have heard some women say that all men are rapists!

All that the Newcastle photos tell is that the men were mostly of Asian origin. All the Lincolnshire photos tell you is that the gang was 'white'. All the rest you know is from the written or verbal reports of both crimes. Nobody is pretending otherwise.

All I'm trying to say is that too much is being read into photos.

Likewise the slavery gang in Lincolnshire were/are "travellers" (whether they actually travel or not, I have no idea) but no point in pretending otherwise.

So if groups of vile white British "men" (they are not real men in my opinion) were raping and grooming young girls of an Asian background/heritage in as many areas as have been effected by this "plague" Newcastle, Rochdale etc. do you not think the press would jump on that too?

How can you not look at the photos of these animals and not admit that there are distinct similarities? Oh and for the record, they are not all middle aged guys either.

With this kind of political correctness where someone can't even admit to what you see with your own eyes, is there any wonder the police and social services took so long.

Their photos tell you nothing whatsoever about their faith and not much about their background and heritage either. If you were to publish photos of a dozen random white males they could have come from a huge range of countries, faiths & backgrounds.
You're only able to assert what you do because you are familiar with the details of the case.

And I am not defending these people in any way whatsoever. Just wondering if that would be the assumption made at the sight of any photo of a middle aged guy of Asian extraction?

The media could call them anything they liked or nothing at all but their photographs give away the fact that they are all from a similar faith/background/heritage.

That's shocking paddyann. Something about young men in groups and alcohol being a toxic mix. The poor publicans.

I think its about calling them "moslems" in the media,it tars all moslems with the same brush....in a very different case ,locally a pub owner has been having alot of trouble from what I call sailors and the community they come from calls naval personnel .The pub owner has reported these young "men" to the police and has gone to the newspapers when the MOD did nothing about it.The behaviour included ,sexually harrassing young female staff,BITING bar staff,fighting with other male customers and knocking out an 18 year old girl! The "naval" community is up in arms because these guys apparently are all heroes defending our country,should be allowed to let their hair down,and have been NAMED as naval personnel in the media !! So the bar owner has had threats ,his wife and children have had to go stay with friends ,and he has police protection at his door .Does that mean we should give NO information about the person committing the crime ,race ,religion or JOB .Just say 6 men were involved in anti social behaviour.or 17 men were accused of rape ...that way NO community will feel its being tarred with the same brush .Or are the owners of other bars entitled to know where the problem is coming from ...or the girls in Rotherham know to stay away from dodgy older men of a certain background ?

Oh God. Poor girls. I wonder how much support and help they received.

Some of the Rochdale child rapists are now out of prison and their victims often see them.

Anyone that does what they did, to anyone, doesn't deserve anything. They should be incarcarerated for life, not life as the law sees it, with life expectancy rising, not 20 , how many life's have they broken and ruined. All assets be taken and put to organisations helping the victims. I am tired of reading these lowlife getting punitive jail sentences as if that's justice, with good behaviour you can almost half it. The families of these perpetrators enjoy the proceeds of their crimes, they are guilty too. Make anyone think of doing these things realise their life is finished when caught. We need peoplectonsayvthings how they are, not worried about mentioning race. A crime is a crime.

Nazir Afzal, the prosecutor who brought the Rochdale child grooming gang to court, said in the DM this morning,
" I don't believe attitudes have changed for the better. If anything they are getting worse"
This is from a man who knows * exactly* what's going on, so what hope is there of stopping these ( can't print the word here) from carrying on abusing, raping young white girls, no hope.

Did anyone else read the article in today's DM on line, by Afzhal Khan the former CPS leader in Manchester, who insisted that the issue of CSE of vulnerable white girls in Rochdale by men of largely Pakistani Muslim background be properly investigated so prosecution could follow? I'm away with no access to paper news papers but I did read this article earlier today. I'm a fan of this individual. He tells it like it is and made similar points to those made by whitewave ab out the influence of cultural attitudes to gender in this communities.
I live and worked in an area with a large community from the Pakistani Muslim population. We've avoided race riots but the separation of that community from others in our very mixed area seems increasingly the case.
We have a large number of African asylum seekers living locally. When the primary and high school children are on their way home from school, you see large mixed groups of white British, African, Eastern European etc walking home or playing football together. The Pakistani Muslim children seem to me to be much more separate than they were 30 years ago.