Emergency debate tomorrow

You know how I am always banging on about doing your own research? Well I came across a fine example this am, viz:

www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/RTS/Pages/default.aspx?fbclid=IwAR0CLyoixGE0pD5F4ve0WlncqADPSHi-j0BIaimuurn_FoqnLYisNWNSwIo.

Only 2 'regions' have a surplus of exports over imports - Scotland and NI - and another region considered 'poor' the NE of England is balanced. The massive total of imports over exports of the SE skews the National Totals to such an extent that the UK as a whole is a nett importer.

Bet you've not seen this in the mainstream media, who continue to misrepresent NI, Scotland and the NE as a drain on the economy.

Does in not matter that both Referenda were bedevilled with fake news, unlawful spending on propaganda by individuals and Parties, and the promises made in the Scottish referendum about 'near federalism' and 'the only way to stay in the EU'? evaporated and when there are strong suspicions that the Postal Votes were rigged?

Are we supposed to grin and bear it when Scottish waters are suddenly deemed to be English waters, with dire consequences for both fisheries and which Nation is credited with the revenue generated in that area?

What about the survey which showed that English Voters were by a large majority happy to pay the price of losing Scotland from the UK in order to secure Brexit? And the announcement of EVEL before the ink on the referendum result was dry? or the plans to hold all returning EU powers, including those affecting farming and fishing at Westminster, thus robbing the devolved administrations of control in their own Nations? Although Scotland has shown, time and again that it is opposed to having Nuclear Weapons on our land and sea, has opposed fracking and voted to remain in the EU, these and other important issues are decided in London with Scottish views ignored.

The Treaty of Union and the Devolution Settlements have been breached in so many ways, especially in this past year, that it is time they were torn up or rewritten. When people do their own research from a variety of sources e.g. the Oil Industries Magazines, rather than relying on the BRITISH BC (which has a clause in its charter which charges it with maintaining the integrity of the Union) and other London or overseas owned bastions of the Unionist press, they rapidly see the light and realise that Scotland is far from being a burden on the rest of the UK but rather the Cash Cow that Westminster cannot afford to lose.

You had your referendum varian and more voters wanted to Leave the EU than those who voted to stay.
You had your referendum Paddy and more voters wanted to stay part of the UK than those who wanted to leave.
Sour grapes, ladies?

They wont believe youGranny23 they still believe all the nonsense westminster says.They think we're whining ill educated, dour Scots.Thats what the publicity says after all.What they dont understand is that WE know whats true and whats lies AND it can be proven .

The facts are there if they care to look ,Sir Ian Woods said the oil was running out in 2014 ,WE said the Claire field was the biggest find yet...we were called delusional Nats ....BBC reported this year that Claire field is the biggest find in the area with the ability to provide 1500 barrels a day for over 30 years!! Then theres the north Atlantic coast oil that has still to be assessed but with an estimated value of TRILLIONS .All to be spent by WASTEMONSTER politicians to feather THEIR nests .NOT too wee ,or too poor and certainly not too stupid!!

More than 3 million EU citizens living in the UK, working, paying taxes and congributing to our society in many ways were denied the vote, in spite of the fact they would be mode affected than any of us if we left the EU.

Obviously it would far better to Remain in the EU and keep the pound than to rejoin later when we would have to use the Euro.

'Scotland is part of the UK you know'

Yes it is at present but was an Independent Kingdom for hundreds of years before that. Do not swallow the story that Scotland was too wee, too poor and too stupid to manage on its own. That was not true at the time of the Union (which was achieved via bribery and corruption of the Chiefs and Lords and against the will of the Scottish People) nor is it true today.

Google the McCrone Report for evidence of the duplicity of the Westminster Government in managing to convince people that Scotland is a financial basket case. while, at the same time, squandering Scotland's oil wealth on projects in the SE of England, even moving the sea border between Scotland and England northwards such that some of the oil and gas wells were then deemed to be in English waters. It sounds preposterous, like the plot of a bad political novel, although recent events re Brexit have lifted the curtain, have shown us all the extent to which there are dirty dealings, corruption and bribery at the highest levels of Government.

All new states joining the EU have to use the euro, why would Scotland be any different?! I think it was 16+ that were allowed to vote in the Scottish referendum as a one off due to the insistance of the Scottish government, not in the subsequent general election when it was 18 + in line with the rest of the UK.

Ex pats living abroad for more than 15 years weren't allowed to vote. Neither were 16,17 year old Scots, even though they are allowed to vote in General Elections.

'your oil commandeered for the common good; once all your assets have been exhausted, Scotland will be relegated to a cold damp little unimportant country off the northern coast of Europe'...I thought that happened during the Thatcher years and was nothing to do with the EU? Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not sure what happened when we were an oil rich country, but it certainly didn't seem to filter down to the poor.

It would be honest, at least.

Scotland is part of the UK you know Granny23 although I understand from your posts you would wish it otherwise.
Many Scot Nats would rather be under the yoke of any foreign power rather than be allied to England.They many as well just come out with that, instead of finding excuses.

Niggly This has been explained over and over.

1) Scotland would not have to use the Euro but would be required to state an intention to join once they had met the requirements. Then delay and keep failing to meet the requirements (as other EU Countries have done) and continue to use the new Scottish Currency ad infinitum.

2. Our fishermen have already been bankrupted, not by the EU but by the Westminster Government selling the Quotas to foreigners.

3. Scotland's oil and gas have already been commandeered for the benefit of the whole UK as all oil revenues go direct to the Treasury in London. With Independence Scotland can spend these revenues IN Scotland and with new finds announced, there will be plenty left over to set up a Norwegian style oil fund. The sea border would be returned to the pre Tony Blair grab lines, putting almost all the UK's oil and gas production within Scottish waters.

4. In the UNION, Scotland has no seat at the top table, save an ineffective Secretary of State - Mundell - who was only elevated to this position because he was, at that time, the only Tory MP elected to a Scottish seat. Whereas as an independent sovereign state, which choose to remain in or join the EU, Scotland would have a seat at the top table, a power of veto, etc. etc. It would also be a magnet for inward investment for companies and finance houses, anxious to retain or set up a foothold in Europe.

If you want true independence paddyann, why do you want Scotland to leave the union only to fall into the embrace of Brussels? You'll have to use the euro, your fisherman will be bankrupted by foreign trawlers, your oil commandeered for the common good; once all your assets have been exhausted, Scotland will be relegated to a cold damp little unimportant country off the northern coast of Europe, probably with less cudos than Greece! Why on earth would anyone want that?!!

EVEL farce

When will people admit that Westminster is nothing more than an ENGLISH Parliament.With over 80% of MP's English they can do anything they want and to hell with the rest of us .It has always been that way the EVEL face that Cameron announced the day after the Scottish referendum just made it more so.It means ENGLAND gets a say in all things that matter to the other Nations while stopping us having a vote on anything ENGLISH.If thats DEMOCRACY then I've been wrong about what democracy means all my life !! Time ENGLAND had Independence.Then the rest of us can have some say over our own countries instead of the paltry powers of devolution .

I thought all over 18 and registered to vote could vote , who were not allowed to vote ?

A lot of people directly affected by the result weren't even allowed to vote. How democratic is that? And Scotland has been treated disgracefully. Ditto N Ireland. And Gibraltar.

Agree niggly the argument that some have died since the referendum and some are now old enough to vote doesn’t make sense.

I thought the first result was binding?!! Why would anybody believe that a second, third or even fourth referendum would at the end of the day be binding? Who would ever believe anything of any politician. Maybe, Maybe not!! Who knows, what is said, (promised?!! ) today will probably be different tomorrow. Presumably it would be first past the post whatever the margin, with the same safeguards put in place to prevent whoever lost rearing up demanding another go?!! That'll work fine if remain win, but not of course, if they don't!!!

The fault lies right back at the beginning when we were treated to an ADVISORY referendum, which being billed as advisory did not have a 2/3 or 65% base line, of THOSE ENTITLED TO VOTE, such as is common in any situation which involves Constitutional Change. The outcome of the vote (48/52) should have been read as 'The Country is split down the Middle' (or perhaps more accurately at the Irish, Scottish and London boundaries) and the status Quo should have prevailed.

Instead we had this ludicrous mantra that the Country has Spoken and Brexit means Brexit. The only democratic way I can see out of this mess, is a Binding referendum, requiring a 2/3 majority of those entitled to vote, before this hugly major decision is taken. Now we have a public Ceasefire for the duration of the festive season, while machinations will continue in private without scrutiny by the media and public.

Martin Lewis, prior to the referendum said that Britain would be slightly better off financially if we left the EU, but that would be negated by the amount of disruption it would cause. Which has, sadly, been proved to be the case. There isn't a single person that I have any respect for that supports Brexit. Had things been progressing well, 2 + years on [or even progressing at all], I would have admitted that I was wrong, but there is not a single thing that has happened since the referendum that has made me feel that leaving the EU was the right thing to do. And we're not going to get things back that we've lost already [eg The Medicines Agency].

In the early days after the referendum, I felt resigned to the Leave vote. The longer this shambles continues, the greater my change of mind. We need some kind of People's vote which isn't just an in/out question.
The damage to our country is too great and the HoC as divided as the rest of us.

I tend agree that most Leave Voters would probably vote the same way as they did though I personally know a number of leavers who would now vote remain. As I said the make up of the electorate has changed since June 2016 and 11 million or so who did not vote in 2016 (shame on them most of them young who complained the day after assuming that remain would win). More so the 16 to 18 year olds in June 2016 who can now vote deserve a say. We know a lot more now and the matter is so important that a second vote with the benefit of hindsight is the only democratic way forward.

A second vote will be divisive but the country will be even more divided if we allow the Brexiteer tail to wag the dog. It was a very nasty Brexiteer who murdered Joe Cox and such people still exist.

Michael Portillo said on the politics show last night that he would vote for Brexit again but that, with hindsight, there shouldn't have been a referendum. Which just about sums up the lack of any logic in the current situation.

The referendum should never taken place but it did. I believe that majority of the electorate; knowing what they know now and considering the change in the make up of the electorate since June 2016, would overwhelmingly choose to remain. The only way forward without disrespecting the June 2016 vote is to have another one and let that result be binding. The young deserve a say in their future, roughly 2 million of the 2016 electorate have passed away and roughly the same number of 16/18 year olds (in 2016) are now old enough to vote. For all its faults the UK is better off in the EU than out; majority of MP's and The Bank of England know that so why can't do what's right in the National Interests.