The Labour Party

It takes more than 518,000 votes to win a general election

Grandad

'Should the Labour Party win that election which is I feel very possible when wider issues than just Brexit are brought to the fore, then Corbyn would get his wish to directly open negotiations with the EU with fresh faces and different attitudes on the British side of the negotiating table.'
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That is why Labour are not being taken seriously and it has flip flopped all over the place since 2016. I have asked repeatedly ' Is Labour a Party of Remain or Leave ' now?

Corbyn and his Shadow Cabinet say the Labour Party will campaign for Remain at the next General Election BUT if in power Labour will try to open negotiations to Leave!

It makes no sense!

The Conservatives are as split as Labour but Labour has lost any credability with it' s core voters who wanted Leave in most Labour supporting areas and it is losing it's Labour Membership vote who want to Remain. Corbyn has tried to appeal to both sides, like Theresa May but it is not possible.

At the next Conference Labour has to decide to be a Remain or Leave Party to be in position of telling the country what it stands for if there is a snap General Election. If it does not then it will stay fence sitting. The Party will be remain in a shambles as are the Conservatives.
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"Therefore, a change of party, personnel and attitude may bring somewhat better terms from the European side, but as stated they are very limited to what they can grant, due to the treaties that Britain played a major part in formulating and then signed up to."
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What better terms?

Labour had Theresa May offering terms they had asked for in her 10 point offer but Labour said it would still refuse to vote for the EU/UK Withdrawal Agreement so the 4th attempt to pass the Agreement never went to Paiament. Labour has said it will never vote for a ' Tory Deal' it wants power and a General Election.

There was No Deal because the opposition benches held the numbers to defeat it, even if the bladdy ERG on mass voted against, which it did not as even Boris Johnson voted FOR the EU/UK Withdrawal Agreement.
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"Should Britain "crash out" of the European Union without a deal, that will be the responsibility of the Tory/ERG/DUP grouping in the House of Commons, and no other bodies."
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Continually raising the ERG argument has a merit but not when it comes to the numbers and who is responsible for the EU/UK Withdrawal Agreement being voted down. It is a Straw Man agrguement. Had Labour voted for the EU/UK Withdrawal Agreement there would be no talk of ' NO DEAL.'
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Do you believe Grandad- that if Johnson by-passes Parliament to throw us into No Deal- there will not be widespread disorder?

And here is back to my point- yes, it would be very difficult to just cancel Brexit now- it has gone too far. Which is exactly why the LP and Corbyn in front- should have opposed Brexit much earlier - making the case firmly for how it was fraudulently won and how it will cause untold damage for jobs, and the poorest in society- and massive loss of revenue that will make improvements for great services like NHS, Social, Education, etc. He had all the information to make such a very strong case- with the support of the Unions or without (McCluskey has been shown again to pull the strings). It would have been fairly 'easy' then- but I agree it is much much harder now.

And again- I have consistently explained why there cannot be a 'better deal' now. The EU cannot and will not agree to give the UK much better terms than its own members- surely you can see that. Farage and many others said we could have a Norway/Switzerland type dea and I do believe we could have bargained and fought for this- but it would have meant FMOP- and it is far too late now. Sorry for repeating the 'mantra' but NO, there won't be a 'Cake and Eat It with Unicorns and 100s or 1000s on top' - whomever is at the head of negotiations- May, Johnson or indeed Corbyn. Freesh faces and fresh attitude makes not difference- it is just NOT on the table, and never will be. And for totally understandable reasons. And the backstop cannot be taken away - the GFA must stand and be respected.

I will not accept your statement that I have not made the case and use generalities without foundation.

jura2, I believe you may have mistakenly "cross-post" on two threads. The above seems to be related to what we were discussing on the "Old Labour" thread but a reply from you to me seems to have been placed in this thread. ?

However, Perhaps it is me, as it does not take much to get me confused at by age.

Anyway, me and my better half are now out for the rest of this evening, so will try to decipher it all later on tomorrow as I am in the office in the morning (yes Saturday).

So apologies if it is me that has got the above wrong. ?

W

Conference is going to be pretty lively- how will the LP manage to show the rest of the world they are united as a party, and even more importantly, united on hos to deal with this massive debâcle

'Labour could be forced to back the revocation of Article 50 in new conference showdown' (from The European)