For those of you who use the words of war as if it is still being fought -

The language which has been used in the referendum/Brexit campaign is worthy of a book/PhD thesis. My impression is that the Leavers realised the power of language as a propaganda tool very early.

I buy, on averager 2 cucumbers a week. None of them are precisely straight, there is always a slight bend or a kink at the end.

I grow some cucumbers and they grow straighter than the cucumbers I buy.

youtu.be/QwK1MCTltSA

I think there are so many people like this fellow. There are also the people who give the answer, ‘ because the EU are a bunch of crooks’ but cannot provide one example. They are also unaware that the UK already has legislation in place to control immigration, but chooses not to use it.

Multiply that one caller a few million times :-(

I honestly don't care what shape my cucumbers and bananas are. I'm imagining the history books of the future talking about the Cucumber and Banana Revolution. Really?
PS. Anybody fancy an iced kipper?

Veterans interviewed on local TV also express s desire to leave. (Tue 06-Aug-19 23:23:07)

Older people are just older people Minniemoo and although some seem to regret not being part of the war, they were not. Even those in their 80s can only have a child's eye view.

I would love to know on which programmes you have seen veterans express a desire to leave. I haven't seen a single one. The celebrations of D Day brought us some of the last of those who where in any way able to give their opinions and every single one wanted us to stay in. Perhaps you would like to tell us where you saw the ones who said the opposite.

That, though is not what I was commenting on. It's those who have absolutely no knowledge of war using the language and hyping up how they see the English (for this is an English Brexit) that I think is so despicable.

My in-laws, now in their 90s, both lived through the 2nd world war. They didn't fight but he was stationed in Germany afterwards. Neither wanted to leave the EU. Infact they were delighted when the Berlin wall came down in '89 because at last the East German friends they had made while camping in Eastern Europe in the 60s and 70s were free to come and stay with them here and vice versa.

They are quite conservative in many ways but not Brexiteers.
It's a North South divide perhaps as Scotland voted 62% to remain.

There are a number of different dividing lines. Age is one of them, partly because people of different ages have different attitudes.

Apparently (and I can't remember where I read it), the biggest correlation between voting leave was with people who support the death penalty.

This has wandered off topic.

I don't understand where this viewpoint has come from. Another attempt to stir up ill-feeling where there is none?

Both my parents served in the war, and as my father stayed on in the RAF, we moved to Germany shortly after I was born. My mother talked to me about it when I was older. She had a great deal of sympathy for the German people, trying to pick up the pieces of their lives. Many of the ordinary people suffered at the hands of the Nazis. Many women were sterilized, so they were unable to bear children.
They made things and sold them at the door, not wanting money as payment, but food. She was very friendly with a dress-maker, who was one of our neighbours.

My opinion of the European countries has always been one of great respect. Germany was known for making high quality goods. The Austrians, the Italians, the Spanish...they each had their own culture and identity.

Yes, I voted leave but not because I have negative feelings about the other European countries. My problem is towards those who want to destroy Europe and its traditions...making it into one large community. I am against that.

Someone is trying to stir up hostility where none exists. I wonder why?

My problem is towards those who want to destroy Europe and its traditions...making it into one large community. I am against that.

Why would the EU want to 'destroy Europe and its traditions'?

I'd say that the EU did a great job in spoiling fabulous currencies of the countries It might seem nonsense to you but I was very sad to see the demise of all the different money. The drachma for example. Mid 6th Century BC. A currency that had survived 2500 years, give or take. Gone.

Thank goodness we were able to keep our currency. I would imagine had this thread been going back when we were debating the Euro you devotees of the EU would have gone along with all the 'experts' Of which there were many. Who forecast total disaster for the country if we didn't accept the Euro. Recession, unemployment, house price crash etc etc. Never happened. Experts got it wrong. Again.

I don't suggest that any of you pro-Remainers will see any value in my comment.

Just my opinion. Which, funnily enough, is as valid as yours.

It doesn't seem nonsense to me at all, but what has the drachma got to do with the UK? We've never been in the Eurozone. Since when did people start caring about people in other countries?

By the way, I don't suppose the Greeks had quite so much nostalgia towards the drachma, when they were cooking their own books and accepting loans from the EU.

Here's a little anecdote (sorry!) …

A few years ago, I took up knitting. I'm not very good and struggle with details. I joined a knitting group, where some of the members had been knitting for 60+ years and they gave me all sorts of tips, which I accepted gratefully. They were certainly "superior" to me, but I didn't turn round and ignore them because they were "experts" and knew more than I did.

Let's just look outside our own little bubble and consider the wider picture. Who fears a united, strong Europe? Who would gain from a weakened Europe intent on domestic hostility rather than world events? Think about it. This is propaganda, as I've already stated, intended to sow the seeds of hostility where none exists at present.

"Since when did people start caring about people in other countries?"

What??

Wow, that's pretty astounding. No idea why you want to remain if that's your attitude.

I care a lot about what happens to people in other countries.

Your knitting anecdote is sweet but just as pointless as me mentioning the drachma.

Who in the EU wants to destroy Europe and its traditions? 28 nations (including the UK) have their own identities, histories, things to be proud of and things to regret.

If DNA samples were taken of most European people we would be seen to be mongrels. The forces of Genghis Khan spread from the East as far as Istanbul. Romans spread throughout Europe as far as the Scottish borders, Vikings spread down to Northern France, the Normans spread across to Italy. All of these people intermingling at some point. Maybe this is why so many people want to Remain. I see myself as European first, then British and then English. I love Europe, its history, its art, its architecture and its music.

I don't think we need a history lesson. The original countries of Europe were settled by different tribes...each with its own identity. Britain was also tribal. Those traits still remain, in spite of invasions.

After the Trojan war, many refugees fled west and settled in different parts of Europe. Many Jewish people come to Europe after being released from captivity in Babylon. There is still some confusion about where the name 'Britain' originates.

Some years ago, there was a programme on the DNA of the British and some of us are still purebloods...the result of generations staying in one place.

Thank you RosieLeah for extending my "history lesson"

Yes, thanks for the history lesson, RosieLeah.

PS. What's a pureblood?

PPS. Are you the poster who claimed Christ was British (apologies if I'm getting confused).

Well, Minniemoo, when DID Leavers start caring about people in other countries?

Well REMAINERS like you obviously don't care about people in other countries, growstuff. You can't change what you said!

Quite the eye opener!

Another typical sarcastic comment. If I don't care about people in other countries, why do I often make charitable donations to help said people growstuff? Some of the remainers on here are so judgemental, it beggars belief.

Thank goodness we were able to keep our currency. I would imagine had this thread been going back when we were debating the Euro you devotees of the EU would have gone along with all the 'experts' Of which there were many. Who forecast total disaster for the country if we didn't accept the Euro. Recession, unemployment, house price crash etc etc. Never happened. Experts got it wrong. Again.

Exactly Minniemoo, I have made this point previously on other threads, and unsurprisingly Remainers don't seem to respond. Wonder why?

To look at it another way, our membership of the EU has been a compromise in several ways. ie currency, we make the majority of our own laws we're reeprsented in the the EU parl etc.
And in exchange we have very favourable trading arrangements with other european countries, the Irish people are fairly satisfied. etc
So why rock the boat?