Attempted murder at Tate Modern

I feel depressed sometimes thinking of my DGS and what his life will be like in the future ( or could be like.)

You wouldn't be human if you didn't feel upset and depressed at times. Its impossible to love someone and not worry about them or be affected emotionally by their difficulties. Blood is way thicker than water.

I don’t think he could ever live alone successfully

My son couldn't live alone either. In fact he couldn't even be allowed out of the front gate alone which is why we've put the level of care into place he now has. But that said he's a happy young man despite everything and though his life is very different to what it previously was the dark days for me as his mum are now few and far between. Im content with the fact he's happy. Im happy he's happy in his own way and whilst it may not seem much to others its actually huge.

I hope this can help you in some way.

Jane10

They are vulnerable themselves, sadly, and are more likely to be offended against than offending.

That’s what I find depressing Jane the fact that he can’t see any wrong in people and could be easily parted from his money etc.He’s a very gentle boy ( teenager)
I hope I am wrong and he can live a decent sort of life, we shall see.Mostly I keep cheerful about it, but now and then the worries kick in.

They are vulnerable themselves, sadly, and are more likely to be offended against than offending.

Agreed, Jane10. What happened to that wee boy at the Tate is appalling but in fact most ASD people are more likely to be a danger to themselves than to anyone else.

lemongrove don't be depressed. I was talking about people with very severe problems and challenging behaviour to the point of offending. Many people with ASD do perfectly well in the community. As I'm sure I've said on here before, lots of people with ASD go on to have ordinary lives, by which I mean lives with ups and downs but lives all the same. Some have partners and families of their own, others may live alone or with visiting carers, some do well in small group homes to share living expenses and support. People with ASD are all different.
I'm lucky in that I've seen so many people in so many situations over the years and can look on the issues from a different perspective than that of a worried family member.
Don't be downhearted. I'm sure your relative is nothing like that young man who carried out that atrocity. It really, and luckily, was an exceptionally rare occurrence.

Jane10

Dear God do you actually know the reality of life with the sharp end of autism in adults? And I mean the sharp end.

I don’t think many people do understand Jane but you obviously have direct experience of it having worked with them.
I feel depressed sometimes thinking of my DGS and what his life will be like in the future ( or could be like.)I don’t think he could ever live alone successfully.

Thanks Sue at least that showed some understanding of the reality.

People with severe ASD & LD’s often need the exact same numbers of carers whether they are cared for at home or in a residential setting. Residential settings are hugely expensive because there are all the other ongoing costs, too. It is literally thousands upon thousands of pounds per person per week.

You can’t just put a group of such people in one setting and have a few staff to care for them. They need individual treatment and carers familiar to them and who know their client well, especially those who are non-verbal. They need to be helped to live the best life they can, despite their issues.

Dear God do you actually know the reality of life with the sharp end of autism in adults? And I mean the sharp end.

Dear god. Do you really work with people with autism.

I agree sodapop.
The best care for people with autism involves structure, predictability and enlightened carers ie well trained people. Unfortunately, these community 'care' companies generally cannot provide this for the more challenging individuals. I have spent time at a place for, probably, the most difficult adults with ASD and the key thing I found was the removal of uncertainty. There was complete structure. The whole day was fully organised and made explicable to the individuals concerned. Another important element was physical activity. Each person had five session of physical activity per day. All sorts of things from trampolining to just walks. I was struck by how calm and settled the individuals were. Yes it was fully institutionalised but the residents were doing well and appeared content. From reading their notes it would seem this was for the first time in long eventful lives.
As a side note, I've visited people with ASD in prisons and was amazed at how comparatively happy they were. One chap still smiles broadly as he looks back on his time 'inside' as we might looking back on a lovely holiday.
Of course all people with ASD are different from each other but, for some, institutional is actually the best care.

I think the term 'institutional care' is somewhat emotive. Realistically groups of people can be cared for more economically than singly. We are entrusting the care of our most vulnerable members of society to untrained, unskilled people in the main. This is the reality not a rose tinted view of how well people with mental illnesses or disabilities are assimilated into their communities. Neighbours and local people do not get involved.

Many people who require 2-1 care have such particular individual needs that an institution simply can’t cope with them

And then there are those who's needs are so complex that they themselves couldn't cope with being in residential care (alongside many others) because of the effect it would have on them.

2 carers for 1 person must be very expensive for the State. How is this even viable?

Sorry, Ive no idea how much it costs. Im not up on the figures as we live abroad and my sons home based 2-1 round the clock care isn't provided by the state. Not that he previously needed the care of anyone except myself and family but like many of those who are on the spectrum my son deteriorated terribly once into adolescence and his original one diagnosis is now a total of 3. For eg I think about one third of those who are on the spectrum can develop epilepsy during adolescence. Then you can also have a situation where something like TS develops.

If only adolescence really was just a case of 'its their hormones', but its not, and many people just aren't aware of the massive changes taking place in the brain during puberty and the resulting havoc these changes can leave in their wake.

Anyway, I do recall that when a friends son (he's very similar to my son and they're UK based) was going into full time specialist residential care about 14 years ago the council then paid about 9000 pounds per week.

It costs a heck of a lot more to keep someone in institutional care than in their own home with carers, believe you me.

Many people who require 2-1 care have such particular individual needs that an institution simply can’t cope with them.

Exactly Urmstongran in an ideal world community care would work. In the real world its not economically viable and in fact poses a real threat to the public and the people who have a mental illness.
I believe Bravery has been sent to prison and not a secure hospital.

The chap who knifed those poor souls in Glasgow was another example of threatening violence the day before the tragedy happened.
Why doesn't anyone take these threats seriously ?

Yes. I defend the use of that phrase. We all used to be so sick of people announcing that they had autism to excuse whatever crime they had committed. It was an insult to people with autism. I know so many people with autism with absolutely crystal clear understanding of right and wrong and who would be outraged to think that uninformed people and, sadly there are many of these, who would jump to conclusions and assume everyone with autism was dangerous. They are not. This young man's atrocious act will resonate with the uniformed and lead to people regarding perfectly innocent people with autism with suspicion. It could hold back more positive understanding of autism by the general public for years after all the good work that's gone on.
This young man obviously had a back story. There was a reason why he had care provided by an agency. I looked them up. They claim to provide care for people with learning disabilities and mental health problems. No mention of autism. Why would social services contract this company to provide care for this young man? Where was their care planning? Risk assessments? How could this be allowed to happen? That's the outrage not avoiding politically correct language.
I expect you can now see what I'm raging about?!

2 carers for 1 person must be very expensive for the State. How is this even viable? Even on basic minimum wage. It’s a huge amount of money, then multiply it by the hundreds. Thousands even?

I do feel we have moved too far away from the much criticised mental hospitals of years ago.

I’m sure there were some very sad cases of people incarcerated in those places who would have posed no threat to the general public, but the institutions were replaced with totally unsuitable alternatives where, as with this dreadful case, extremely dangerous individuals are roaming around amongst us.

Psychiatrists can’t always accurately assess how dangerous a patient is.

Exactly BibiSarah - one of our regular woodland/resevoir walks is used by local carers, usually two workers to one person in need of care. The need for two carers doesn't equal danger to others.
This young man was very unusual in the level of risk he posed. It's easy to criticise but I do wonder about the risk assessment that allowed him four unsupervised hours given his aggression towards carers and previously expressed dangerous thoughts.

My heart sank when I saw that this man was flying the autism flag

Flying the autism flag?

And you say you worked with those who are on the spectrum?

I agree Iam64 but sadly I think the word autism is all a lot of people will see

Yes. I agree that the word autism is all that many will see but strangely enough I started to write a post this morning about the person needing 2-1 care because he was dangerous and all I could think about was - Jeez, I hope that doesn't make people think everyone they see out with two carers is dangerous because they're not.

I don’t think he was ‘flying any flags‘ Jane he was diagnosed as autistic when he was a young child he didn’t just make the diagnosis up you can be diagnosed with more than one mental health problem. He had told people he wanted to kill he told people he wanted to be in hospital and he turned himself over as soon as he did it none of this would be normal behaviour and it amazes me that someone deemed him ok to have four hours a day alone
I think he is in the right place and needs to stay there and my heart goes out to that poor family and little child who were just in the wrong place at the wrong time

He was diagnosed as on the autistic spectrum at 5 years old, which is quite young for the diagnosis. It's a real pity that so many newspaper headlines focus on that diagnosis, rather than the Personality Disorder. It's the PD that makes him dangerous. Many children and adults who fit the ASD diagnosis pose no threat to anyone

I think 5 is a reasonable age for a diagnosis. My son was diagnosed at a much younger age than that but then he was diagnosed by Lorna Wing and Judith Gould who were 'the' people in the world of autism at the time and they clearly knew what they were doing.

And I agree its the PD that makes this person dangerous and one can understand why the mention of ASD and PD in the same sentence can have a terrible effect on some parents even when its just a point of discussion such as - oh I came across this article the other day and it made interesting reading. It doesn't bother me at all though and I really enjoy learning about it but I pick and chose those I discuss it with.

Many children and adults with a diagnosis of ASD pose no threat to others? I have to disagree with you there and say that it's actually most of those with a diagnosis who pose no threat to others.