Moving Covid +ve elderly into Care Homes *again*

PS you don’t wait until it happens then suddenly think ‘oh yes, I remember now this was exactly what happened a few months ago’ - unless of course you are Typhoid Dido or Baffled Boris.

* There may be a spike in cases. I don't think there is, as yet, a corresponding rise in hospitalisations and deaths*

Yes, there is already a corresponding rise in hospital admissions. Look at the stats. And a rise in deaths will follow baggs that is simple logic, especially when the virus filters through to the elderly and the vulnerable.

Forgot the link
www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/19/84-of-care-home-beds-in-england-owned-by-private-firms

This is all you need to know about the vast majority of care homes and why they’ll take C+ patients . There’s not a snowballs chance in hell of the sector improving

Elaine1, I think you are right. That said, I do know carers who have had proper training and who work to a high level of conscientiousness. They are employed by a Scottish charity some of whose funding comes from local authorities.

It will never change. Until staff are given professional training and have a union or professional body looking after their needs - training and provisions of equipment and a proper decent pay structure - it will never change.

Baggs

By the way, I have no need to google Karol Sikora. I follow what he has to say directly, as I said. At the moment he is encouraging (begging) people with possible cancer symptoms to go see their GPs. This seems to me to be a good doctorly sort of thing to do.

Safer to judge people by what they do than by what wikipedia or other sources might have to say about them, don't you think?

Ah well! Personally, I don't believe all cowboys say and refer to be more discerning, but it's up to you.

Do you actually know what he does and has done?

Those who do not believe the worst of this government are doomed to be sorely disappointed. Quite frankly they are a lying incompetents s**tstorm.

By the way, I have no need to google Karol Sikora. I follow what he has to say directly, as I said. At the moment he is encouraging (begging) people with possible cancer symptoms to go see their GPs. This seems to me to be a good doctorly sort of thing to do.

Safer to judge people by what they do than by what wikipedia or other sources might have to say about them, don't you think?

I hope that my Mums care home refuse to accept Covid positive patients like they did during the earlier crisis. My mum was discharged from hospital to her care home ( very apparent she could no longer live independently) but had to have a negative test and then go into 14 days isolation. The home would not have accepted her if her test had been positive.

I'm rather cynical about why some homes accepted positive patients as at the time hospital discharges had their fees paid by the NHS from a special Covid fund - at a greatly enhanced rate! For example, mum will be self funding so would pay £1000 a week at a dementia care home. The fund are giving the home £1400 for her place - payments began at the end of April and are still ongoing. Mums home is a 'not for profit' organisation so that's possibly why they stuck to their principles of not admitting positive patients.

*dying or COVID positive

The plural of one anecdote is not data. The data is the number of care homes that had outbreaks many of which were triggered by C+ residents discharged from hospitals

"Had" is the pertinent word here. Past tense. I'm not disputing what happened earlier in the pandemic. I'm just wondering out loud what the news item highlighted in this thread is really about. I don't believe it's about dumping dying people in care homes to make space in hospitals. I think hospitals are being under-used at the moment, though there are encouraging signs in my health region of Scotland that things are getting back to normal.

baggs let us get real here and not play games. Moving a Covid +ve patient out of hospital to make room for another Covid +ve patient makes no sense

I agree. What makes you think that is what's happening, that that is the reason for the reported moves? All the info I've seen about a rise in cases makes no mention of hospital admissions or deaths which, as I understand it, are remaining very low. There may be a spike in cases. I don't think there is, as yet, a corresponding rise in hospitalisations and deaths.

The plural of one anecdote is not data. The data is the number of care homes that had outbreaks many of which were triggered by C+ residents discharged from hospitals

in (not un)

Baggs

Can you provide some evidence for that statement, please, sw? Government is not following Sikora's advice so I'm not sure where the assertion comes from.

Another thing worth noting is that, since it has been discovered that ventilators are not necessary (not even good treatment) for most cases, if care homes have correct PPE and hygiene practices in place, they should be able to care for covid patients who are not desperately ill. Having a positive test result does not automatically mean ill.

I'm just popping un Baggs, so I haven't got time to give you links about Sikora. You can Google him yourself. He's a vocal critic of the NHS and even spoke in the US against Obama's healthcare reforms. As you say, he's an oncologist with a private practice. He has no expertise on viruses. He also lied for years about his experience. I could go on ...

baggs let us get real here and not play games. Moving a Covid +ve patient out of hospital to make room for another Covid +ve patient makes no sense
....oh hold on...these are elderly, so that's ok.

Where should we dump them? How about a facility that houses other very vulnerable folks?

*they not that

When one of the carers in a home near us tested +ve, relatives of residents were told because they couldn't visit, which that had been able to do before though only through windows.

Nobody in the home became infected.

I didn't see the programme.

Is thinking on Covid swinging towards the Swedish model?

Sikora is a maverick who may be right twice a day like a broken clock. As for care homes - in theory they could manage a C+ resident -but in practice. And if you are C+ you are infectious symptoms or not - it’s not about the nursing care, it’s about protecting other residents and staff. And remember, we’re not allowed information re private care homes about C+ deaths or cases- it’s all commercially sensitive information. So if I were looking for a care home for DH I would have no right to be told whether C was in that home or not.

Can you provide some evidence for that statement, please, sw? Government is not following Sikora's advice so I'm not sure where the assertion comes from.

Another thing worth noting is that, since it has been discovered that ventilators are not necessary (not even good treatment) for most cases, if care homes have correct PPE and hygiene practices in place, they should be able to care for covid patients who are not desperately ill. Having a positive test result does not automatically mean ill.

Or maybe a patsy

Sikora is a government pasty who wants to get rid of the NHS. This thread is about the fact that only a fool would trust any system this govt came up with to safely transfer C+ patients into care homes. If they want to decant such people,they could start with requisitioning a private hospital for the purpose?

I doubt the case is as simple as this thread seems to be assuming.

Hospitals need to open up for people with health issues other than Covid19. Some estimates are saying that there will tens of thousands of excess deaths because of, for example, cancer patients not getting the treatments they have needed this year, plus early deaths of people who did not present possible cancer symptoms because they didn't want to 'bother' their GPs.

Check out Prof Karol Sikora, a retired (I think) oncologist.I've been following him on Twitter and he keeps telling people to get symptoms checked.