Which country should my son and his children ex wife live?

Speldnan now you have mentioned that so much has been going on very recently I can see why everyone is in such a state your Dil may have thought all was forgiven and he was back and she is now upset all over again and trying to get at him the only way she can think of via the children. I hope they start to talk truthfully to each other soon.

No surprise them getting back together didn't work, he loved another woman .

Sorry but her parents are doing what you are doing, putting what their child wants first,

The DIL needs to get good legal advice. She cannot just move without the childrens' father's permission and an agreement in place. If she does she could face charges of parental abduction and ultimately lose custody.

I had a friend in this situation - her DH left her for another woman while she was in the USA for a family wedding. She was very tempted to just not go back al all but luckily she spoke to a lawyer friend who explained Hague Convention and the risk she was taking of losing custody so she returned and got a lawyer. She was eventually able to return to the US will primary custody but had to return her child to his father for 6-8 weeks per year

If I am reading correctly between the lines as they say, the fact that your son has lived with another woman for some time now and that he's been separated from his lawful wife for eighteen months, suggests that your son may be the one at fault for the break up. He is also the one who (legally) has the right to force the family to stay in NZ because he's willing to give up his wife but not the girls. It seems to me your daughter in law has gotten herself into a pickle and a very raw deal. Perhaps you can talk some sense into your son. If he can only find happiness with someone else, it isn't fair for your dil to be 'trapped' thousands of miles from home and family without any support. If he truly loves his girls, he should do the honorable sacrifice which is to give their mother the freedom to come home with the children. If he doesn't like that arrangement he can still..... 1. try to save his marriage 2. Move to the UK with or without his new love interest

Speldnan, I'm so sorry you find yourself in this position. I'm in a similar situation in that my DD's priority is her DD and her ex's is himself. I think you have done the right things so far and you have to go on with that. We keep wanting to "interfere" in our DD's situation but just have to rein ourselves in, it's all so difficult and I really feel for you with even more complications. Brilliant practical advice from others.

Willa45 your view is exactly the OP view but I think they are both to blame really. He left originally because of my DIL affair. It was v sordid because she told him about it 2 days before the birth of their baby. There was a doubt about the paternity of the child so my DS had to get DNA tests. Luckily both girls were his, however he felt he could never trust his wife again after all the agony she put him- and us here, through. He was honourable though and stayed at home to support his wife and baby through the first few months and never voiced blame to her. It was only later that he met this other woman and would not start anything with her until he'd left home. It was rebound I suppose but she seems a nice girl, a Kiwi. Now it looks like he's messed things up with her too! There are always 2 sides to these things but it is my duty as a mother to support my son. I forgave my DIL and hold no animosity towards her.

Shazmo24 The same applies in the US.
I have a granddaughter who barely knows me I am a voice and a photograph.
We have nothing in common kind permission of her U.S father who made sure he would have her mother arrested if she attempted to bring her over to visit me.The UK have no power as they allowed this system which I believe started after WW11 when so many british girls married GI's but then wanted to return home.

It's the children's life that should be the first concern and they need both parents. They are also New Zealander's by birth. It's a no brainer

faults on both sides but what will be gained by forcing the childrens mother to stay somewhere she isn't happy,especially if she has to stand by and see her ex make a life with someone else.

Speldnan... Apologies! I should have read your second post more carefully. No matter what happens, you have every right to support your son. I also realize that your DIL bears much of the blame for the situation in which she now finds herself. I would add that based on what you just told me, there isn't even enough of a marriage left to salvage.

Perhaps a solution would be for DIL to choose another city in NZ where she can live and work and start afresh. They could both enjoy shared custody. The trade off would be that either she, your DS or the girls would have to spend time back and forth. They could attend school on one city and alternate vacations and holidays in the other, or some similar arrangement depending on distance.

In the end, it wasn't the children who created this mess and so it's now up to the adults to find a workable solution for the girls'sake. This is not going to be an easy fix unless both parties are willing to compromise and make sacrifices. I'm so sorry you find yourself in the middle of this.....I would be heartbroken!
Best, Willa

In no way is your ds "dictating his wife's life". Her parents are trying to emotionally blackmail you and your ds. Dil did this to herself by having an affair. I would be advising your ds to put an alert on the kids passports so they cannot be removed from nz without his permission and if i were him i would not allow dil to take them to uk to "visit". If she went and did not return them, (which sounds highly likely in this case) she will be forced to return and as a precis poster said, possibly arrested. There is also no such thing as "custody" now.

It's never as black and white as 50shades implies....the marriage must have been in some kind of trouble for her to have an affair in the first place You don't fall into someone else's arms if you are happy so I m guessing their marriage troubles go back a long way Your son found a new partner which you say was on the rebound so presumable fairly quickly .... then they decided to try again so his girlfriend got the heave ho ( more lives being hurt) It sounds as if they are both acting like headless chickens looking for other loves before cleaning up the mess of this broken relationship if the baby is two there has been all this happen in two short years with other people being brought into the whirlpool
I would think they need mediation (which may be expensive) They certainly don't seem able to untangle all the wires on their own and family getting involved will only make matters worse I know you said counselling didn't work but maybe it was all too new and raw then or maybe they didn't get the right counsellor Mediation unlike counselling will look for practical help which will suit them both and the girls
It's hard being so far away but running away although that is the most natural reaction in the world ( and I m guilty of running home) is far more difficult if both parties are good parents ( mine wasn't )
Good on you for seeing both sides of the problem it's always easier to gather your own and blame the others
I wish you really well in this... hardest thing in the world is watching your grown up kids hurt but stay well out of it you CANNOT intervene in any way without making things worse

Grannylynn i felt the same as you and stayed in the south until the youngest was 22 years.