Contact with grandchildren Q&A

Hello Denise, Gill and Alyson,

A month ago my daughter parted from her husband of 22 years. She could no longer live with his very controlling ways and although she wanted my granddaughter to leave with her, she refused, preferring to stay with her dad, who had never stood up for my daughter in any family arguments/issues. My daughter led quite a lonely life within the family and many times my granddaughter would shout at her to leave the home saying, "Why don't you just go - Dad and I don't want you. He should divorce you" or something along those lines.
Now that my daughter has left, and the Separation Order has been set in motion, my granddaughter refuses to speak to her mother or reply to her daily texts. I asked my daughter if I may text my granddaughter and ask if she'd like to meet to do a bit of shopping and to talk if she wished. My daughter agreed and I texted her, but have had no response. It's only a month since the break-up, but I'm really worried that my granddaughter will think I don't love her and that we lose touch. She's nearly 15.
I'd really appreciate any advice you may be able to offer me. Thank you.

Hello.
My three daughters and myself had a very acrimonious split three years ago. Bridges are very slowly being built but my eldest daughter, the mother of my two only grandchildren, absolutely refuses me any contact with them.
I've not seen my grandson since he was 2yrs (he's now 4yrs) and I've never seen my grand daughter (I wasn't even told when she was born).

My daughter knows this is breaking my heart, as the little ones don't know me (nor I them). I feel that whatever happened between their mum and myself should not be allowed to affect them in this way.

I have broached the subject many times with my daughter. She will now meet up with me, but there's no sight on the horizon that I will ever see my grandchildren. I feel the children are being used as weapons/pawns against me and I have no idea as to how I can gently persuade her to change her mind. I'm not asking to see them unsupervised, just to actually see them with their mum would be enough for me.

Please, if you have any advice as to where I can go from here, I'd gratefully like to hear it. Many thanks...

My then teenage daughter had a baby and because she was so young she and my little grandson lived with me. I do everything with and for him and have done for three years. I adore him and because I am almost like a parent to him (his dad is a total waste of space) I have grown so, so close to him.
Suddenly my daughter gets new boyfriend and it's caused a bit family rift. Be cause I have got angry about so much immature behaviour she has taken GS away, no idea where. I was text that she won't be coming back and she may stop me seeing him. All this upheaval for a bloke who has been in the scene for about 2 months.
I can't stop crying. I know the pain that other op are going through. It's pure hell and even worse because others have all the power and control.

My daughter is nearly 40 and has recently divorced her husband after 13 years of marriage. She has 3 children – a daughter of 19 who was the result of a young fling, and 2 children of 12 and 6 by her husband. We used to be very close because I brought up her and her brother as a single parent, and when she became pregnant while at university, I was very supportive during her pregnancy and was there at the birth, and had both my daughter and the baby living with me for 20 weeks each year while she finished her studying. I supported her both financially and emotionally, and she could not have finished her degree without me. I was so proud of her and adored my granddaughter.

However, for the last 3 or 4 years she has become more and more cold with me. I kept asking her if I’d upset her but she would give some flippant reason for not being in touch. Suddenly it was me making all the contact, and when we spoke she was cool and unfriendly. It was terribly hurtful after we’d been so close but I told myself that it was because she was unhappy with her husband. Eventually she took the children and left him. I had to press her for her new address because she didn’t offer it. She suddenly seemed extremely happy and I suspected she’d met another man but when I asked her, she just said she had “a queue of people” wanting to take her out, and fobbed me off. I felt this wasn’t the truth but that she would tell me when she was ready. I was hopeful we could get back to normal.

If you knew how very close she and my son and I used to be, we have gone from one extreme to the other. I never would have believed she could change like this and I just don’t know why.

I only know what is going on in her life from Facebook because she posts the minutiae of her life on there with lots of gushing messages about how much she loves her friends, so when she suddenly posted up a photo of herself in evening dress wrapped around a man 3 months after her divorce, I knew my instincts had been right and that this must be the new man, although she had not had the grace to tell me she’d met anyone.

When I texted her to ask about him, she said she had told me, but she must realise that she hadn’t. I reminded her that her answer had been “there’s a queue” and she ignored it. It turns out she was seeing him for 6 months before she left her husband, so it’s been ongoing for a year now but I still haven’t been invited to meet him despite my inviting them here. I want her to be happy and if he makes her and the children happy, I am pleased for her.

Every time I try to get in touch, she says she’s terribly busy and I now have to book an appointment to speak to her on the phone because she is never available. I send her a message on Facebook asking when it would be convenient to ring her, and she will give me a “possible window” 2 or 3 days hence. If I phone on the offchance I can never get her.

Meanwhile she has plenty of time to post inane rubbish on Facebook but she makes no contact with me except to tell me what the children want for their birthdays. We speak perhaps twice a month if I keep pushing to phone her, and I see her and the children about 3 times a year, but again I have to keep pushing. When I do see her for a few hours, she spends much of the time on her phone texting, and one time even reading a news article, when I asked her what she was doing. I chat away to her but she makes it clear she’s not listening. After I’ve cooked some lunch and she has hardly spoken to me but spent a couple of hours on her phone, they go home. It’s so rude to behave like this.

It’s hard to make conversation with her because she doesn’t keep the conversation going and because I feel I have no part in her life and have no idea what her life is about any more. It’s the same with my grandchildren – I have no idea how they’re getting on at school or what they do with themselves unless she posts something on Facebook. When I see the children, they are not very talkative with me because we hardly know each other any more.

I have been completely pushed out and I have no idea why. I’ve told her several times that I’m frightened we are losing touch but she doesn’t respond to that, and matters don’t improve. I am worried that if I put a foot wrong she will say “That’s it!” and I will never see any of them again. In fact I sometimes wonder if she is pushing me to do that, as if she wants me to snap (which I often feel like doing), so that she can break off all contact, yet blame me.

She lives a 2 hour drive from me which I can’t manage to do. I also find it difficult to travel to see them by train because I have longstanding M.E. which I’ve had since my daughter was a teenager, but even if I did manage the train journey, there’s no guarantee I would see them when I arrived or that I’d be welcome.

How can I manage this? (I'm sorry this is so long). Thanks in desperation.

I've recently been through a bitter divorce. One of my children is very supportive, most are rather cool and a couple have said they don't even want me to send birthday cards to the grandchildren. I don't see any way I can do anything about my relationships with the g-children in that case.

Half my family are in the same religious sect as I was and my ex-wife (sic) still is. It's better at breaking families than mending them.

I don't really have a specific question - I just don't have any ideas.

Hello,
We share grief and sadness with other parents of Narcisstic Son in Laws (SiL) and Daughter in Laws (DiL). We (my partner & I) have been trying to seek solace from people who have experienced the same problems from their children marrying into abusive and controlling relationships, who ultimately control you (the parent/grandparents) and bring terrible grief and constant anguish into your lives through fears of consequential losses for you and your child/grandchild. There is no winning - you stand up for yourself - you're out, or you put up with the abuse/blackmail - it gets worse.

Our question is to people that have experienced similar problems directly or indirectly in families, or to counsellors who help in these Narcissistic/Victim relationships - how does one cope with the ongoing abuse and concerns? Especially if it is your child who is trapped in an unhappy abusive marriage, where ultimately it is not your choice to do anything about, and you find your 'voice' is taken away (removed by creating family war and eventual isolation) so you can't do anything about it anyway.

Our sad story is that we've huge ongoing concerns for our son who we used to be very close to, he's now isolated and trapped in a terrible marriage with a Narc wife since our granddaughter was born a few years ago. She gradually exposed her true side after the birth to the point that it became intolerable - her rudeness and demands were and still are astounding.

We became very close to our granddaughter, whom we bonded with love from day one. We babysat loads (by our son and DiL's requests) in fact at times our DiL clearly wanted more help than we could give! However, whatever we did was never enough which she showed in many Narc ways, and slowly but eventually she found a way to get us out of the picture. We believe this is because she did not like our good influences on 'her family' and the fact that over time we clearly did not get on with her. This was after us both having done absolutely everything she demanded of us to help their family (NOT being 'interfering' or treating them as children as we were often accused) then finally accused of being terrible influences and 'crazy' even, and that's not all!

To back track over time it was clear she was using our son for her own gain, and us too, to do everything for her for an easy life and us doing all the work, she acted like she had a right to treat us that way, but nothing was enough to please her, and slowly our DiL cottoned on that we could see through her manipulations of us all.. We ended up having a massive argument (one that she had been looking for a long time) when she projected all her wrongdoings onto us and there was nothing we could say or do because her mind was made up - we had to be out! The smear campaign followed!.. Fortunately, the majority know these accusations are unwarranted, but these people cannot understand why our son would allow such accusations. They cannot comprehend how in fear of losing his daughter he is. This is why relating our stories to people that have not experienced such pain (by being a Narc victim or target) just cannot understand why someone would put up with this abuse.

Our son is a bright intelligent chap, and if anyone told him several years ago this would be happening to him and his parents, he would find it all completely unacceptable and intolerable and would not have stood for it - but now he is broken down and seemingly a changed person in order to be obedient and do his duty to keep in with her, for the sake of his daughter. Our granddaughter is still young and appears not outwardly affected, and we can only hope she is ok. The fact that our son is still there must help address the balance, but we are unsure if this is good or bad for a young child as she must hear the bullying.. There is no easy answer, and it is not our decision at the end of the day.

So to complete the picture, two years down the line we have had no direct contact with our DiL, but she still communicates by proxy through our son (making out it is him when we clearly know it isn't) with a long list of unreasonable conditions put on us by her, on every tiny thread of a relationship that we're allowed left with our son and granddaughter. We want more than anything to cut ties with her completely on the NO CONTACT rule (the only way to deal with Narcs) but we cannot, as we have to go along with it, for fear that she will completely pull the plug and we will never see our son or granddaughter again.

We wake every day with fear in our hearts for our son and his sanity, but he is so caught up in his Narc's tangle of distortion that we cannot talk to him properly anymore - she has built a solid wall between us. Even when we do briefly see him, it is like she is sitting on his shoulder. No one it seems can talk to him anymore (friends or family) she has put the fear in us all. All our friends who know us and our son from pre-Narc days, cannot believe how bad this has got, how undeserved and unreasonable and crazy this all is, and how our DiL has so much control over us all by coming between us through fear......

The story is too long to relate in one, but we hope to share with other parents in fear of their children and grandchildren's welfare and safety. Plus it would be helpful to know how to cope with this extreme concern on a long term basis. This could go on for years, and keeping our strength up and sanity ready for when the time comes to help our son and maybe our granddaughter when needed is difficult to keep up, with so many twists and turns (which happen quite regularly)...

To clarify, we have been advised by counselling to attempt to stay involved enough to at least have contact with our son and granddaughter whilst she is growing up, but it is hard when this means that we still have contact by proxy with our DiL. She uses this excuse as a method to still get to us by various Narc means, we have to put up with all the ridiculous conditions and restrictions put upon us in order to do this and keep family contact. We find that even though we adhere to all conditions, things do not improve at all to anywhere near normal relations. So our contact with our son and granddaughter is very limited and controlled and there is nothing we can do about it.

Our main fear is for our son and how he is coping with this continual abuse who we believe is now not able to share this with anyone. Previous to his total 'conditioning' he was able to talk to us on occasions, he knew it was all wrong, but felt he had to do everything demanded of his wife to keep in there with his daughter. He is torn as he fears that his wife will turn on him (she has done previously) so he is now stuck. We all know that his wife is a law unto herself and would make life impossible if he should leave, smear campaign, loss of his child, house, finances... Anyone that has had dealing with a Narc spouse will know that no court can control Narc actions. So we are all at a loss, and can only hope freedom and peace will come to all of us somehow one day, and soon, before too much more emotional damage is done.

How do we all cope until that freedom comes is a never ending open question? Our hearts go out to all Narc victims whoever you are, no one deserves to be so badly treated and controlled to the point that they are not even allowed to have a mind, identity or life they can call their own anymore. If you can help with some guidance through knowledge and experience, any advise would be gratefully received.

We realise this is a long story, but thank you for reading and listening.
Freedove

Hello Denies, Gill & Alyson

Can my granddaughters step-family stop me seeing her? I have a very special bond with my precious GD, as she lived with me before & after her birth, is no blood relation to her step-family, yet they have cut me out of her life & her brothers, for no reason & I haven't seen or heard of them for nearly two years, which has broken my heart.
I went to court for visitation rights, but it didn't get to the last court hearing, I went 3 times, each time a different Judge, the first time they didn't show & lied saying they had not been informed, which I proved they had. They believed the lies & deceit of her step family, my s.i.l mother wrote the statements & I didn't have a lawyer so didn't do well in the hearing!
I had said or done nothing wrong, apart from taking my daughter in & helping her, when she was stopped from going back into their family home & seeing her babies after a big argument. They have now brainwashed my daughter against me & the rest of our family, not one member of our family sees her or her children, & I'm afraid for my daughter & granddaughter.

Just read your story Freedove that's my story too, Narcissistic s.i.l!
As you say, no matter what you do, you can't win, not even in the courts, as these people are masters of lies & deceit, I had his mother to deal with as well, same Narcissist, cruel & heartless & very jealous of me & my other daughter, my cut out daughter's sister.

Is this a female thing?
My heart goes out to Yogagirl, Freedove and MaryXAX, but in this day and age it seems that the more you try to hang onto something the higher the price will be emotionally or otherwise.I have 12 G children and about 4 G Grandchildren and after my wife died 6 years ago none of them came to my door for the four years when I lived on my own, apart from my Daughter who has always been very close to me,I have since moved in with her, the best move I have ever made.
Before my Wife passed on we would have up to 6 G children over weekends regularly and of course I in my own mind made excuses for them like they miss their granny and that they do not like being in the house as it seems empty without their Gran being there.Most of them are up in their teens now.
I am pretty old fashioned in my views,I dont believe in children outside wedlock and having children unless people have the means to keep them and I have always told my kids that I cannot demand Love but I do demand respect

One day those GC will want to know about their Grandparents and will come looking. Some will undoubtedly get to the truth. The controlling narc may face a back lash or continue twisting the truth to their own advantage. Just try and stay in touch with GC via postcards or, if permitted, phone call telling them about your day to day trivia adnd may be asking about thwirs but never asking about their parents etc. When they are old,enough may be see if you can all meet up for lunchor a trip in a neutral environment and do nothing but go on about the local place, lunch etc. Narcs are insecure control freaks. You can't win but you can show the gCs overtime that you are nothing like the inevitably nasty poc the Narc paints of you. Sorry, this isn't much help but is written from the perspective of someone who eventually got extricated from an emotionally isolating and abusive marriage to a Narc who still portrays himself to gullible Cs as whiter than white done wrong by their awful mother.

Thank you Yogagirl As you've sadly experienced there is usually more than one in a Narc family, our DiL has a N father, from whom she learnt well! However, the fact that her mother left her father for this very reason, would make you think that she would be more wary, but no - perhaps that's why she fights her corner even more!

I understand the terrible hurt caused by either a Narc SiL or a DiL causing havoc and grief in the family, but there is an added problem for a son caught up with a Narc DiL, as opposed to the other way around... That is how the courts favour children staying with their mothers - so absolutely no hope at all for a Non Narc Male to get custody or even better contact rights, because all the Narc female wrongdoings would be impossible to prove due to their nasty, devious, manipulative cover ups just to get their way and 'win' (and not for their childrens benefit either). At the very least if its the other way around, there is a trace of hope for the Non Narc Female to have some peace eventually with their children, away from the Narc Male Spouse (for most of the time).

Is there any way that courts could be made more aware of Narc traits in divorce cases? This is a serious issue that should be taken into consideration for all the poor victims wrapped up in Narc abusive relationships, whether male or female. A subject worth bringing more out in the open by us all, until the right people listen and help comes to the right people in this respect (and hopefully more eventual justice). We all know that court 'mediation' wouldn't have a hope in hell in actually mediating with these monsters! It actually could possibly make things worse for the poor non Narc and their children's future.....

Thank you too agile75 Another sad story, thankfully you have at least one very close daughter, who you must cherish... Yes everyone male & female (not just a female thing!) deserves respect, and there is nothing wrong in asking for it. In our case and I'm sure in many others dealing with Narcs, respect is clearly something that we are not 'allowed' anymore, amongst a whole list of other unreasonable conditions we have to put up with.....

Thank you also to shoreham55 It is very helpful to hear from people who have managed to escape the Narc chains - we are very glad to hear that you have come out the other side with your 'voice' back. We know that the Narc spouse will never change their spots, but at least you can now have some peace and start living in a real and happier world again. As you have advised, we would call our granddaughter with just nice chats, if only we were allowed to communicate directly, but (you guessed it).. we are not allowed to make calls! She is still young and our contact is very controlled, so the chances are very slim that we would ever be allowed to get to the stage of these type of chats, until she is grown up, independent and 'free'. Meanwhile, we will do our best to keep whatever contact we have with our granddaughter as much fun and as normal as can be!

Freedoves

I feel your pain freedove. As grandparents we are in a very precarious position because if we dare to say anything then we are quite simply cut out and loss of contact is either threatened or actually carried through with.
Legally we have very few rights in all reality.
I am having to watch my 3 year old grandson totally sidelined for my daughters latest boyfriend and if say anything then she threatens that I won't see him again. It's unfair and blatantly sickening.
I guess your son is an adult and he will have to sort out his marriage difficulties.
Sometimes it takes years before a person leaves a controlling, abusive partner and many people choose to stay in these relationships because it's the only way to keep their children in their life.

It's agony to not be allowed access and communication with our grandchildren.
I don't have any real advice for you how to deal with it as you basically have no control whatsoever in this situation. Perhaps you could keep a sort of diary for your granddaughter. Write her little notes, cut important things out of the newspaper and tell her things about your own life and background and who knows you may be able to present it to her one day and she will know that you truly loved her and though about her so very much.
I hope this unhappiness for your family can end soon.

My MIL is a Narc and FIL is her enabler.
We have been no contact for nearly a year now and the relief from being 'free' of her has been immense.

I would really recommend seeing a counciler, just having someone to talk to about it who undersrands this disorder is comforting.

It was easy (kind of) for us to cut contact because we are prorecting our children aswell as ourselves. It must be horrible for grandparents to be in this situation as they lose a relationship with their grandchildren through no fault of their own.

Narcs will accept no responserbility for their actions, they think they can do/say/ whatever they like with no consideration for anyone. Everything will be about them, and how they feel. They expect love and respect when they give none of it themselves, no boundries. They think they are above everyone and only think about themselves.

How to handle them is difficult and drainning (from my experience anyway)
You cannot argue with a Narc. If they do something you don't like and try and talk to them about it, they will flip it round and somehow it'll be your fault.
My MIL also developed Cancer and a Brain tumour in the same week. Obviously she is ok now.

Smile and nod.
Dont answer back.
Agree with everything they same.
And walk on egg shells for the rest of your life.

Its very emotionally draining and i feel for you all who cant do anything about it.

Sorry to hear your sad story Agile75 Thank God for your nice D
If only Shoreham55 with the phone calls, I loved it so much when my little GD would phone me and say "hello nannie, love you". But thanks for advise
Freedoves there is a law in Oz, New Zealand, Canada & France stopping GP being alienated from their GC & is being put through Parliament right now, not sure how that would help me/us. I went to mediation, which did me the power of good, the councillor was lovely, I know my D would have been up for it & maybe we would have had a break-through (this was about 6weeks into my being cut out), but of course nasty s.i.l declined the invitation to attend.
Wondergran I know my D has been told by her controlling H that he would keep the children if she dared to leave him & not only that, he said to her that he would "Hunt her down like a dog & kill her" if she ever dared! My D actually got this on tape, but wouldn't give me or her sister a copy, as she said it was too terrible for us to hear, no doubt threats to kill us too! He already threatened to kill my little dog, that had done nothing, I was bewildered as to why he would say such a thing, just out of the blue for no reason, but for the fact I love my little dog, so that's enough for him. I am keeping a gift sack/bag for my GC, with Xmas & B/day cards in & their first lots of presents that I was unable to give. I have just finished writing them a letter, titled 'Summer Holidays', saying how I wish I could take them both to the beach & buy them ice cream!.... I will post one (which will be ripped up & posted back through my door) I will also put one each in their gift/memory bags.

I think we've started a new thread!

Mmmm, is this thread about losing contact with GC's…or Narcissism

Actually I think the title of this thread is not helpful.
We know that estrangement happens for a variety of reasons, one is a disagreement within the family unit, but to call this discussion Family War is not the way to think if we are to look to the future not the past.

My son was an innocent victim of an unprovoked assault causing a permanent disability and loss of career and my mum is not the slightest bit interested. Not only has she failed to inquire even once about him, she has talked over me with trivial gossip and even lied to my face. I cannot bear to visit her again, I am so upset and angry but she wields this weird power over me and I am unsure I have the courage to not visit her. I definitely dare not tell her what I feel. Genuinely not all grandparents are nice - but then again, she wasn't a nice mum either.

I agree with Minty that title of this thread is not helpful

I have stopped posting about this on GN. It is a daily ongoing bereavement.I try to keep active and positive and appreciate my friends.

To recap for Denise,Gill and Alyson
DS lived with girl friend for 5 years before they married
GS born 2 yrs later- everyone delighted. They persuaded me to move nearer. DIL came with me to view flat and helped me to move!
I was available- but never called without being invited- still worked part-time. My help was in demand - DIL went back to work and GS into nursery at 6 mths.
I collected GS from nursery -cared for him until Mum was home.
I thought we had a good relationship - didn't criticise or give advice.- even invited to share holiday in Maldives when GS was 16 mths - wonderful for all of us - they were able to go diving and out with friends in the evening and I have great memories/photos of time spent with GS .

Bombshell 9 mths later. DIL announced she was leaving marriage and taking GS with her!!! would not even consider mediation or counselling.
She went to work for a 'friend 'of theirs - soon moved in with him.!!
Fast forward –DS and DIL divorced and for 9 years DS was an 'every other weekend 'dad.
Istill managed to see GS- sleepovers at my house,days out together, collecting from school,playing,reading,painting,cooking. We had such fun times
Meanwhile ex DIL married 'friend' and had 3 more children by him..
Early in 2011 conflict between DS and new stepdad lead to alienation of GS and complete denial of all contact between GS and paternal relatives .
DS applied to court- false accusations of him and of me- judgement given against us -and no opportunity for appeal. DS and I have had NO contact whatsoever with GS for over three years.

Please Grandparents Assoc. and Relate don't tell me to keep in contact .Phone,email ,cards,letters all blocked-accusations of stalking and harassment. What else can I do? -apart from sending loving thoughts.
I grieve most for what is happening to the mind of my GS.What kind of husband /father will he become?
His paternal grandfather died recently estranged from his GS. I foresee the same thing happening to me.

I am hoping you can help with a question from a mum's perspective. My son who is 5 has an amazing relationship with his grandfather (my father) The problem is my dad has remarried and I do not get on with his wife. I try to be civil for the sake of my dad and my son but am finding it increasingly difficult. There are good reasons for the breakdown in relationship between me and her and although I have tried my best to put them behind me her actions are making it impossible. I don't know how to move forward without the relationship between my father and son suffering. Hope you can help

Thank you for changing the title of the thread.

Nearly 5 years ago my son stopped me seeing his daughter, my gd. At the time he didn't say I wasn't going to see her again and with hindsight had I known what was to follow I would have gone round to him to ask him why? It was over weeks of ringing and texting him, his Dad and his partner, repeatedly asking if I could see my gd but getting no answer that it slowly dawned on me that my son wasn't allowing me to see her. No big fallout had occured, nothing said in the heat of the moment, I honestly haven't a clue what I have done wrong. I was so angry after nearly a month of getting nowhere, no answer's no replies, that I decided to seek help from a Solicitor. This was probably the worse thing I could have done. Rightly or wrongly I thought if I let this continue and leave things as they stood I would have a heck of a job, down the line of trying to get any contact with my gd if I let things slide.
To cut a long story short, I stopped the Solicitor taking it to court when I became ill with stress and was advised by my doctor that I was heading for a breakdown.
In the past 4 years and 10months I have never missed buying her presents for Christmas, birthday, Easter, Valentine's day (I make up boxes for them lol) plus in between little gifts, I write her letters, post and send back to my own house then put them away for her. Not once as my son let her ring me to say thank you or allowed her to send me a card on my birthday. The hurt and pain this has caused me no-one other than another going through the same would understand. I know I would cope with a life threatening disease easier.
I must have done 'something' to hurt or offend him but I don't know what. What I do know though, is, I never put him in a children's home, he was never fostered out, I have never beaten or abused him, I never drank or took drugs, I have always been there for all my children whenever they needed me. My son needed alot of my help in 2007 and got it. Now he has another child who I obviously haven't seen either nor am I likely too.
I pray for them all everyday but come to the conclusion that I will not see them again. For anyone out there going through the same heartache I would love to hear from you. We can chat about the 'weather' too lol. Take care x

What happened to the webchat.
Was it all to much for them?

All this outpouring of pain, heartbreak and sadness. I hope some of it can be resolved. If not I hope there is someway of getting support and comfort here. I sent all of you I wish I had someway of lessening your pain. Good luck.