Teachers' strike

Gilly I made no sweeping statement. Read the link, disagree if you want, but don't judge teachers and schools by the example you experience at your GD's primary, which I agree is shocking but not typical.

We have known about the strike for a month but only got confirmation on Friday that GD's teacher would be working.

Only those in the NUT have been out on strike today, Ariadne - unless you mean that not every member of that union has been taking part?

I wonder why more people are not teachers? There seem to be so many benefits! X

Well, this is another of those occasions when I say "I agree with Aka". My daughter, her friends who are also in their 20's,and mine, in their late 50's and 60's all work very long hours. My daughter left home 6.30am, arrived back 6.30 pm, ate something, and worked till 10 almost every evening. Sunday afternoon and evening set aside for planning and marking. My close friend who is 60 this year, works in a special school. She works the same hours as my daughter, but leaves home at 7am, and gets home about 5 or 6 because her journey to work isn't quite as long.
I often worked 50 or 60 hours a week as a social worker. The work was demanding, but I could have some down time driving between visits, or setting some time aside to write reports. I admire teachers, and I'm sorry that Gillybob is so unhappy about the school her grandchildren attend.
I have mixed feelings about strike action. Those who take part lose pay, and pension benefits. I struck for two separate days as a sw. I worked very long hours before and after the strike to make sure I covered all the necessary work I couldn't do on strike days. Teachers may miss a day in front of the class room, but they'll try and make it up. There are no doubt a few lazy teachers, but I haven't met one yet at any of the schools my 3 children and 2 grandchildren have attended. We don't live in an affluent area incidentally.

J52, These benefits might include having to restrain a difficult child whilst being kicked and bitten and then having to deal with the violent and abusive parents.

And that's in a primary school.

With you too- we can argue about whether striking is the best way to do this- but I'd be more than disappointed if the teachers did not feel the constant undermining of state education by the current gvt, and Gove in particular, was totally wrong and so disruptive- a million times more, than a day on strike. There is already a huge recruitment crisis with teaching, and so many wanting to retire early, as they just cannot stand it, or give to it anymore. Is it in our grand-childrens' interest if teaching cannot attract quality teachers, and when a large number of teachers are unqualified and plucked off the street. Is it in the countrie's interest when the qualifications the kids leave with are not worth the paper their are written on?

I am glad teachers are fighting for the system- and wish there would be another way. Strange too that often those who complain about the kids education will be damaged but a day's strike- are prepared to take them off school for in-term holidays???

I so wish my grandchildren could come to school here, where teachers are still respected and relatively well paid, and with reasonable class size (15 to 23 max) and where all schools are funded the same and teach the same syllabus (no Church schools, hardly any private (only for expats and in larger towns).

Merlotgran - I was being sarcastic. I taught disadvantaged secondary pupils in
Inner city areas of social need, for 38 years. It annoys me that teacher's biggest critics are those who have never taught, but think its a soft option! And that includes the government! X

Sorry, J52 I realise that now.

I agree.

Merlotgran - off for a . X

I don't think anyone goes on strike lightly. However right you believe your cause, it is a strange and unsettling experience.

I also don't think people putting in hours of unpaid overtime, whatever the job, is something for society to be proud of but rather something to be ashamed of.

I am trying to work out something in my mind. I am trying to compare a teaching job with another. I am trying hard to understand the constant 60 hour week professed to be the norm for a teacher to work, hence unpaid overtime.

So does anybody know:-

What is the official number of paid working hours per week for a teacher.

What is the official holiday leave entitlement for a teacher.

Is the holiday entitlement, over and above the various school closures. e.g if a school is closed for 6 weeks in the summer, 2 weeks for spring, 2weeks for Xmas, plus many other days and teacher day's is the official leave allowance taken extra to those official school closures, or does a teacher have to include their leave entitlement within the school closure times.

What is the starting pay for a teacher.

I don't know the answers and as there are so many posters from the teaching profession I would be grateful if a poster would respond to my enquiry please.

Yes, I'd be interested to know the average number of hours worked per week by teachers after taking school holidays into account. I know they have preparation, marking etc. to do, but they certainly get a lot more time off the actual job than any other worker.

BTW I had to laugh at Nonnie's comment about 'only' having five weeks holiday! I have never worked anywhere where the holiday entitlement was more than four weeks

Working hours are 195 days per year plus 1265 hours 'directed time', which are usually taken up with before and after school duties, meetings, parents' evenings and things like school productions etc. Teachers are also required to 'work such reasonable additional hours as may be necessary to enable the effective discharge of the teacher's professional duties'. This covers the time required for planning, marking and assessment. Teachers have a statutory right to PPA time for this within the working week. I think it is ten percent of teaching time. There is no leave entitlement outside school holidays other than on compassionate grounds - funerals etc. Starting salary is currently £21,804 for qualified staff (more in London.) Does that help POGS? All the info is available if you google teachers' pay and conditions.

How many hours does a 'day' consist of?

I work in public sector and we were told in no uncertain terms we had to make alternative arrangements for our children so we could attend work! I assume the day my son lost today is less valuable than a day if he was on holiday with me for which I would be fined.

I suppose it varies from school to school. It's usually the length of the school day plus before and after school duty taken from directed time as decided by the Head. Plus in my last school a ninety minute meeting three or sometimes four days a week after school. Again, this probably varies a bit.

My DH is a teacher, so we have talked about the strike. He is scathing about striking teachers I'm afraid. Yes, there are hours of prep and marking and so on but it's a rewarding job, and fairly well paid. It's hardly going down the mines, in his view, and the holidays are fantastic.

So, a bit vague about actual hours worked then - understandably, I suppose it's a bit like a GP.

But for those of us (and there don't seem to be many!) who aren't retired teachers, it's hard to calculate exactly how hard-done-by present teachers are in terms of pay and conditions. The 1265 hours - are they compulsory?

Good point, seasider.

Yes, compulsory.

So they're all working for less than the minimum wage then. No need to strike...

Sorry, not all, but certainly those on starting salary.

I support the teachers and can quite understand why they went out on strike. If it is such a cushy number, why do so many leave after a few years?

I spent most of my working life as a legal secretary, for which I was well paid and, at least in London, had fantastic benefits (including 6 weeks holiday, thorough annual health checks, heavily subsidised restaurant, etc., etc.). I re-trained as an adult literacy teacher in my latter years of working, and, though I enjoyed it immensely, I just could not afford - energy-wise, money-wise and health-wise - to continue. I found that, with all the hours put in preparing: lesson plans, lesson material (and photocopying it), termly schedules, student profiles, individual learning plans, sessional progress sheets, end of term reports, etc., etc., etc., I was working full-time hours for part-time pay. I reluctantly returned to secretarial work.

Having now retired, I'm doing voluntary work in a school and I am full of admiration for the teachers there. If a teacher is conscientious (and I feel sure that most of them are), it is a very responsible and demanding job and one in which they seem to be under constant attack.