How will you vote in the EU referendum? (Thread 2)

"I am also interested by the section of the population who object to being told what to do by Obama (not that he did), but are apparently happy to be told what to do by Rupert Murdoch."

What is apparent? I think you are making an assumption that one has to be, in your words, "happy to be told what to do" by someone. What about those who have thoughts of their own and don't know what the Murdoch empire says orcare what Obama says?

As for the wing and prayer comment, my immediate reaction is Why not? Besides which, it doesn't feel any more risky to me to come out of the EU than it does to stay in. Both conditions carry risks.

I would fully support the need for people to think it out for themselves Bags. (I didn't think you were a Sun reader anyway ). I certainly make no assumptions at all that everyone is influenced by the newspaper they read. Some are though. You only have to see the comments on some forums where highly dubious "facts" are quoted that have obviously come straight from a story in a newspaper.
I am afraid that I do see Brexit as much riskier than remaining in the EU.

Cummings' performance reminded me of a second hand car salesperson. He lied, didn't answer questions and made things up on the spot. He hasn't even been elected.

He's got form from when he worked for Michael Gove as a ruthless idealogue, who doesn't listen to other people. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he's still pulling Nicky Morgan's strings on academies. He's a thoroughly ruthless operator, who doesn't know fact from fantasy.

Andrew Tyrie took him apart.

Who else would you trade with?
The other 200 countries or however many there are.
That is the type of comment which looks inward.

The EU as I understand it is mainly financial?

Not that we will stop trading with Europe.

It is all so bloody depressing.

World leaders, world institutions are told "butt out"

Media owners who chose to opt out of the U.K. thereby paying little or no tax, showing by that very act what they think of the U.K., have access to our homes every day, spewing lies and half truths. Look at the latest homily from Johnson - he is getting madder by the day. There is no way he should be considered for 1 second as a Tory leader (or perhaps he should )

What is the matter with the British voter? They would rather take the hump and like a teenager "rebel" rather than a measured well thought out approach.

No obiene the EU is absolutely not just financial.

There is so much good that we have benefited from, that is what I find so worrying. So little is spoken about the other benefits apart from trade.

Just watched a great interview with the BBC and Obama- where he explains his comments. And he says, we live in a global interconnected world, with global interconnected problems that need.....

Pollution and the environment (see how plastics travel all over the world- it's not any ONE country's problem- just a small (massive) example, immigration, Syria and the Middle East, trade, etc, etc - they are no longer things that can be dealt with separately.

He also explains how Trade deals culd take YEARS, 5, 10 maybe, to be put together. Because they would have to deal with the wrath of the rest of Europe, and would NOT be able to favour the UK and fear alienating Europe, which is just as important, or indeed more important, strategically and trade-wise.

Norway and Switzerland have had very long histories of neutrality- and the special deals they got were partly based on said long history. And even then, they have had to accept freedom of movement for people as part of the deal.

There is NO WAY Europe will accept such trade deals with the UK- partly out of spite, because they will be furious to see the UK leave, and then have the cheek to DEMAND new deals. Trust the French on that- I hear them talk about it everyday, and they hate the way the UK has always been the tail that wants to wag the dog and have its cake and it eat + (that is truly how they see it in the vast majority- not my words here). But mainly because it would benefit them- as a lot of businesses, and the Financial hubs will move to Europe. Already the City of London is beginning to lose a lot of business to the European Bank in FRankfurt and elsewhere in the rest of Europe.

And as far as immigration, win win again. Do you really think the European countries will put much effort in stopping migrants getting to where they want to be - the UK. The French will be delighted to 'get rid of them' - ask the people of Calais, they will happily pay for boats to take them across. Same with the Italians, the Maltese, the Greeks...They are now helping to stop the flow- because they have to as part of the deal- but then...?

obieone,
So which 200 countries do you suggest? How many of them do you think have money to spend or produce anything the UK wants to buy?
It's not inward. It's realistic.

Thanks jalima for reminding me that the British were also there. Actually i lived for two years in the British Zone in the 70s. As i was at home with a baby I did not see a single soldier and heard that they spoke no German and kept to thier barracks.
The difference to the British Forces is that the Americans like the Germans. they loved being in Germany and did not want to go home. i suppose a lot were German descended fom German immigrants from the 19th century.
I hope the war brides were happy. They won't have found visiting easy

Andrew Marr and. Obama - needs watching

I love his measured and thoughtful approach. Nothing brash. So different to what we have to put up with.

I hope Obama is right when he says the trade agreement will take years. He is such a good speaker but what he says has been practiced beforehand- he doesn't intend to make any mistakes. We will miss him!

I do get terribly embarrassed when we bang on about the special relationship. I wish would stop it.

Theresa May has changed her hair colour - much better!

MargaretX that may have been true where you lived, but it can't have been true everywhere because we know a few people who were stationed in Germany post-war and a few must have ventured out of barracks because they married German girls. DB's friend learnt the language to converse fluently and became an interpreter.
DB and SIL ran a German exchange group - their small town in the UK was twinned with one in West Germany near the border with the East, and very successful it was too. These people would be in their 80s now I suppose.

Perhaps I should have a listen to Boris as he appears to be mentioned so often on threads

Margaret and of course, you had Elvis! which is more than the UK did

Just watched Theresa May and found myself actually agreeing with her (I think we should stay in) This is really scary.I generally want to shout and throw things when she speaks, I was nodding instead. This issue is going to see some very strange alliances.

Quite honestly I think the majority of the British voters simply don't understand or perhaps even want to understand about the intricacies of the EU, and perhaps why should they?! You have to be pretty clued up to make an informed decision, and a lot of people just aren't, and probably don't want to be! I guess people will vote IN particularly now Corbyn has put his stamp of approval on the IN vote that at least prevents a protest anti government vote; but I think for lots it will be a case of hanging onto Nurse, not the understanding of the finer points of the EU!

whitewave - 8.34am and 8.36am
It is all about what we dont like now. We are not happy now. Far from it.
What you presumably like, we dont.
Nothing at all to do with rebelling.

I once heard Hillary Clinton say a whole load of things that were "good" about something. I thought them all "bad".

daphnedill, I suggest you google the 30 wealthiest nations. Some of the "third world" isnt as "third world" any more.

Jalima, I know a few German ladies who found British soldiers too. I have a friend who was a major for years in Germany, whose wife is German. He told me that soldiers were told not to wear their uniforms in public.

The US is one of the few countries in the world, with which the UK currently has a balance of payments surplus. It's the UK's biggest export market - mainly pharmaceuticals, so I think Obama has a right to tell us what the situation is. The pharmaceuticals manufactured in the UK are mainly produced by foreign owned companies, which will very possibly relocate to the EU, because their EU market is actually bigger.

European non-EU countries up for grabs as trading partners are (off the top of my head) Iceland, Albania, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Macedonia and Serbia. I'm really not convinced that any of those countries are queuing up to buy our mechanical appliance, motor vehicles and electronic equipment, which are the UK's biggest exports by value. We currently export arms to the Middle East, but it would be silly to rely on exporting heavy equipment to the other side of the world, because shipping costs would be so high. China and India can produce and ship stuff more cheaply.

The idea seems to be that we can kill off our manufacturing completely and rely on financial services, which is in itself risky, because much of the business will possibly move to Frankfurt or even Paris.

I'm afraid I think the idea is barmy.

PS. Boris Johnson seems to have lost it completely. He's now called Obama 'ridiculous and weird'.

Which ones are those, obie?

That is the strange thing about it, trisher
I wonder if, whichever way the vote goes, it will result in a big shakeup of British political parties.