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Being blamed

(420 Posts)
Emelle Sat 25-Jun-16 12:11:10

I can honestly say that in making vote my only consideration was for the future of my children and grandchildren which meant I voted against my own concerns. Anybody else insulted by the blame our generation are getting for the result of the vote?

JessM Wed 29-Jun-16 06:51:39

Yes the notion of planting Boris up to his neck in the garden, lightly forking in some blood and bonemeal around his chin (oops, sorry lad! Was that your nose?) and then getting out the hose to water it in has a fair amount of appeal.

Jane10 Wed 29-Jun-16 07:17:57

Wish there was a 'like' button 'JessM*!

POGS Wed 29-Jun-16 10:41:29

Welshwife. 28th 13.26

"I would be interested if the person who said that she did not find the workers rights good from within the EU could tell us in more detail what has he means as I have always thought they were much better than what workers had previously."

This extract might help.

'Currently, posted workers are already subject to the same rules as host Member State employees in certain fields, such as health and safety. However, the employer is not obliged to pay a posted worker more than the minimum rate of pay set by the host country. This can create wage differences between posted and local workers and potentially lead to unfair competition between companies. This means that posted workers are often remunerated less than other workers for the same job'.

Corbyn has been giving the impression during his speeches to stay and fight from within the EU for Workers Rights and has indeed mentioned the Posting of Workers Directive on numerous occassions, he says we will stop this by being stronger working together 'from within the EU'but in fact there are already moves to 'Reform the Posting of Workers Directive' anyway and the link of 8th March details this.

'From now on, all the rules on remuneration that are applied generally to local workers will also have to be granted to posted workers. Remuneration will not only include the minimum rates of pay, but also other elements such as bonuses or allowances where applicable. Member States will be required to specify in a transparent way the different elements of how remuneration is composed on their territory. Rules set by law or universally applicable collective agreements become mandatory for posted workers in all economic sectors. The proposal also gives the possibility to Member States to provide that subcontractors need to grant their workers the same pay as the main contractor. Nevertheless this can only be done in a non-discriminatory way: the same rule must apply to national and cross-border subcontractors.
The proposal will also ensure that national rules on temporary agency work apply when agencies established abroad post workers.
Finally, if the duration of posting exceeds 24 months, the labour law conditions of the host Member States will have to be applied, where this is favourable to the posted worker.
These changes will provide better protection for workers, more transparency and legal certainty and ensure a level playing field between domestic and posting firms while in full respect of Member States' wage-bargaining systems.'

europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-466_en.htm

It was widely acknowledged that in fact the UK has better employment laws and regulations than those of the EU. We accepted all EU legislation but went beyond them. Some put spin in the opposite direction but failed and the truth is the only campaigning rhetoric that stood up to fact was the possibility/off chance the evil Tories changed any of the existing employment laws, usually accompanied by the lone voice of Priti Patel. There was no evidence this would/could happen!

This is why the Labour heartlands thought in a different way to the Westminster bubble , left or right of politics. They know the truth because they have to deal with it.

Emelle19 Wed 29-Jun-16 10:54:58

We voted remain and I blame BORIS for whipping up this almighty catastrophe he has landed us in, with his blatant lies. I will NEVER vote for anyone connected with the out campaign!! I am distraught and in mourning. :-(

Beammeupscottie Wed 29-Jun-16 10:58:30

Not only will I not vote for any "leaver" but am seriously thinking of dumping my friends who did.

POGS Wed 29-Jun-16 11:12:40

I like the Tony Benn quote mentioned.

"Hope is the fuel of progress and fear is the prison in which you put yourself"

POGS Wed 29-Jun-16 11:15:47

Beam

If she was your 'friend' did she never at any time give you sound advice, lend a helping hand, give you support, share a laugh with you, help you in sadness?

sad

Aruna Wed 29-Jun-16 11:19:17

Why have have we ignored younger generations aspirations to remain in Europe? Why have we taken away their right to live and be educated as in Europe as part of the Union? Why have we been been so selfish as to put the clock back when now is the tick time of the young? Why did we not step back to consider their future in a world they will inherit? Why have we not shown more responsibility to create space for them to put forward their ideas? Why did we endorse separation isolation otherness? Is lifestyle keeping young more important than the young? What ever our views we have had our time now it is theirs. Their voice needs to be heard through referendum based on truth

Tegan Wed 29-Jun-16 11:21:52

Beam; same here. I can't be friends with people who don't understand why me and my family are so upset.

Beammeupscottie Wed 29-Jun-16 11:34:14

Pogs. I will give consideration to what you say but some things are bigger than personal loyalty. To be brutally honest, the woman I have in mind has always irritated me with her parochial attitude to everything (perhaps now we won't have Albanians leering at our women as they walk through town) and I think I have never liked her (the friendship has always been more on her side than mine) and this gives me a good excuse to quietly drop her.
ps. Loved your blow by blow commentary of EP yesterday. very good.

miep Wed 29-Jun-16 11:35:46

We voted to stay in, but all our elderly neighbours (we live in a row of sheltered (sort of, if you want) bungalows with mostly people aged 75+, did not. We have learned not to mention politics round here!

Elegran Wed 29-Jun-16 11:42:57

Aruna

If their aspiration was to stay in Europe, why did 64% of 18-24 year-olds and 58% of 25-34 year-olds not bother to vote at all?

18-24: 36%
25-34: 58%
35-44: 72%
45-54: 75%
55-64: 81%
65+: 83%

www.independent.co.uk/voices/eu-referendum-brexit-young-people-upset-by-the-outcome-of-the-eu-referendum-why-didnt-you-vote-a7105396.html

Those of us of any age who voted to stay were doing what we thought was best for all generations, but if the young can't be bothered to find out the facts, weigh them up and vote, then they don't have aspirations at all, they just want their elders to look after them and make the decisions, so that they can then moan that it is all their fault.

If you have aspirations, you DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Elegran Wed 29-Jun-16 11:45:21

That list is of the percentages of each age-group who DID vote. It is perfectly obvious who cared about the future, whichever way they thought it should go, and those who couldn't be arsed. Having a vote is no use if you don't get down to the polling station and use it!

Elegran Wed 29-Jun-16 11:47:22

It is not "we oldies" who let down the aspirations of the young, it is the young who let themselves down by sheer inertia.

Tegan Wed 29-Jun-16 12:00:22

How many of us were politically active when we were that age? It was only when I was a mother of young children that I wanted to make the world a better place.

Mamie Wed 29-Jun-16 12:05:09

I would say that lots of us were Tegan. On the barricades in '68, demonstrations, political activism, lots going on. I remember it well.

Anya Wed 29-Jun-16 12:11:57

Me too. Not on the barricades Mamie that's more a French national sport, but matching for CND certainly.

Mamie Wed 29-Jun-16 12:20:40

I was in Paris Anya. Afterwards I was involved in the feminist movement.

Anya Wed 29-Jun-16 12:27:48

Good on you Mamie

I'd say our generation was quite politically minded ...I was certainly a big Bob Dylan, Joan Byaz (sp?) etc fan, etc. Remember attending an amazing Youth Peace Conference in London when I was in the 6th form.