Tax payers alliance on BBC politics - cutting pensioner benefits

Hello ayse 2 threads on this now! Shows how cross we all are!

Perhaps we ought to arrange a march?

ayse I am a little confused by your post. The link is to the tax payer's alliance but your comments relate to the current government. They are not the same.

I doubt if any current pensioners would forget and I think the suggestions made about us are very patronisingly made by someone much younger who makes assumptions about older people.

I object to the WFA being referred to as a benefit as it was originally introduced instead of a rise in the old age pension and the sensible thing to do would be to integrate it into the pension and stop all this fuss every year.

I also object to pensioners being continually vilified as the cause of all the problems. We are not. Most of us worked jolly hard when there was no tax credit, no nurseries etc. and DH and I have never 'claimed' anything. We bought homes when interest rates were sky high and were content with hand me downs and sweaters instead of central heating. We have provided for our old age as I assume most gns have unlike those still to retire who can draw down their pensions until they run out and then their care home bills will be paid by the state.

Sorry, rant over.

nonnie members of the Tory government were present at the meeting. ,ayse is right in her comments.

whtewave I think it was only one of them and, although her comments may be right it is wrong to link the Taxpayers Alliance comments to the government. She seems to attribute what is said to the current government which gives a false impression.

nonnie of course at the moment it isn't known government policy. But as I indicated on the other thread, these ideas get worked on to see if they will run. Osborne is absolutely hell bent on reducing the state, and what is seen as oap benefits will be withdrawn if they can get it through without too much opposition.

I know a lot of contemporaries that quite frankly do not need the WFA. It seems to me, short of means testing, WFA should be taken back through taxation, so that people in real need benefit, and those who are wealthy refund it. There will of course be borderline cases, but surely it's not beyond somebody to be able to address that?!

Sorry to have confused anyone. I do understand that the TPA and government are not the same, however it seems they may be a Think Tank for the Conservative party.

Niggly Nellie - it seems to me that WFA could become part of taxable income so that those that need it can still have it. I have a modest pension (I only pay a miniscule amount of tax) and I could probably manage without. However, I do run my heating at 18 degrees C for about 4 hours a day max even in the dead of winter so I spent many a day with my dressing gown on and a blanket over my legs to keep warm and I would probably be means tested out of it!

There never seems to be a way of having a borderline - there are those above and those below! If people don't need it they could always donate it to the many charities who are desperate for finances. Perhaps if you don't need it you could consider a donation (if you are in receipt of (a) pension(s)?

It may not be current government policy but I wonder where this governments supports think they get their policy from.

I have updated a famous quote from Martin Niemöller which I have always thought said so much. I put it on another forum so I hope it is alright to add it to this one too. I am sure I have missed some of the groups attacked by this government but ...

First they came for the disabled and I did not speak out
Because I was not disabled

Then they came for the poorest pensioners and I did not speak out
Because I was not a poor pensioner

Then they came for the poorest workers and I did not speak out
Because I was not a poor worker

Then they came for Trades Unions and I did not speak out
Because I did not have an insecure and poorly paid job

Then they came for all Pensioners and I did not speak out
Because I was not a Pensioner (and they would all be dead or have forgotten by the next election)

They took away my rights to health care, a pension, security in my job, and decent pay
But there was no one left to speak for me.

Don't worry we will soon be all dead and no trouble to anyone.

Speak for yourself, I don't intend dying anytime soon and hope to be posting, and grumbling for many a long year!!!

There are many ways that politicians of all types put things out in the media to see what reaction they get but I doubt this is one. All governments know exactly what will happen if they upset the grey vote and therefore this is clearly not a government sponsored subject. They wouldn't dare!

I do agree with those who say that the WFA and Christmas bonus should be incorporated into state pensions and therefore taxable.

I am surprised at the suggestion that those who don't need these 'benefits' should give money to charity as I suspect many of us do already. What is the point of moaning about it and saying you don't need it then just pocketing it? I know it has been suggested returning it to the Treasury but I prefer to give to a cause where I can be sure it will be put to good use.

I don't disagree with rolling the WFA and Christmas Bonus into the pension but the language of the article was dreadful - as in it fill me full of dread to think people think like that.

I don't like the idea of giving to charity either. The basic pension should be one you can live on and tax it off the other end if necessary.

Liam Fox was at the meeting. It was an open meeting at the Tory conference.
Therefore the Tory government is involved.
I agree they are probably just floating the ideas, but as said before, how many pensioners voted for them because they were going to leave pensioners alone?
It didn't take some of them long to have a cynical rethink.

That man's a disgrace. Something should be done about him! Talk about taking "practicality" too far!

I'm starting to worry about this government, since this tax credits thing. And I voted for them.

Hurray, jingl. Not that you voted for them, but that you starting to worry about them. Welcome to the worriers.

Don't worry jings this government lied their way into power so you are not to blame. We have had back tracking on promises made about limitations on care home fees, increased free childcare, not touching child tax credits, and no doubt more that I cant remember. Thye take credit for the policies that the LibDems forced out of them such as free school meals for all primary school children and raising the tax bands, and they can't even argue that they didnt know how bad he finances were; they were in charge before. I always joked with my DD and DS that by the time I retire, if ever, there will be no benefits for pensioners, no WFA, in fact we will be the WFA;. Lied is not a word I bandy about, but I truly believe it in this case.

Nonnie: Alex Wild, who is so confident about our physical and mental decline, apparently graduated from Leeds University in 2010. That makes him in his mid 20s, plenty young enough to have living and compos mentis parents and grandparents. They must be so proud.
If my rapid online research is correct he appears to have been 'educated' at a prestigious Birmingham boys' day school and really ought to know better.

Alex appears to regret his remarks of yesterday and has even gone so far as to express remorse.
www.taxpayersalliance.com/explaining_our_position_on_pensioner_benefits

Perhaps his Grandma's given him what for.

I think we should worry about all governments Jbf; they have a huge amount of power and it is easily misused. My feeling is that first and foremost we should work to have as many eligible voters registered as possible. At least that way whichever party is in power will have been voted in by, hopefully, a majority which makes everyone feel it is really democratic.

Well, I don't think much of that apology. He is just trying to re-gain any political ground he may have lost.

He has shown himself to be an pleasant person. An apology can't change that.

...an unpleasant person

So all these non-disabled pensioners who use buspasses will be back on the road again.
He obviously does not realise that pensioners have to apply for bus passes.
Another thing he does not realise is that a disabled person on a bus often has to be accompanied. So that is an extra bus fare anyway. All disabled people can get free bus passes.

See my comments on 12Michael 's Chat thread!!