Schengen

Common sense tells me it's a strange idea. The EEC looks in trouble.

France has issued warnings that everyone crossing into France, by road, rail or plane- MUST carry their passport or identity card (both Swiss and French have them) at all times when crossing the border, and that they will be checked- asking people to allow more time for boarding and travelling to work.

For the whole time since Shengen was signed, it was always clear that border guards could not automaticall check identity papers- for no reason- but only needed to claim any suspicion whatsoever to do so- and if someone does not have such, are allowed to escort them home to produce the document- they can do this for up to 30 km inside the border.

I was stopped at our local border a few years back, when visiting my parents- having picked up a rental car at Geneva. The guy became suspicious because I had a non local car plate, a British passport and driving licence, and a very local accent (I can put in on or off). I had to wait patiently whilst he was checking me out on his computer records- and then one of the local guards came out to welcome me home and give me a big hug- and told his colleague off and explained who I was. Funny.

Here is a message a Swiss friend sent today:

Got this on my phone today. (EASY JET). I just booked a flight yesterday, so this might be old news to some of you.

The French Authorities have notified us of their intention to impose Border controls on all flights including between Schengen states with effect from Friday 13th November, to Sunday 13th December inclusive. During this time it’s important that all our customers travel with either their EU National ID card or their Passport and where applicable a Visa for Schengen. Customers travelling without the required documentation will be prevented from entering France.

I've had to drive into France several times this week. Controls seem to be increasing as the week progressed. On Wednesday, single line, controlled entry at the border and there were spotter vans on some of the overpasses on the way to Mulhouse.

So if you intend to fly abroad for the festivities- make sure you allow at least an extra hour for check-in.

I have always welcomed the fact John Major did not sign the UK up to Schengan and it has been spoken of on several threads by GN's at one time or another. On that note I have never posted one word in agreement of Schengan and I remember being 'taken to task' albeit in a mild manner as being some kind of xenophobe .

Schengan started off with a handful of countries which had a similar trading , financial background. As the EU grew , now 28 countries it has been one of the worst decisions the EU has adopted. The free movement of people was an ideology wanted so dearly by those who saw the European Union as a gateway to ever closer integration, a Federal Europe and it has back fired over many years but the European Parliament has had it's head in the sand by choice.

Schengan has been the cause in so many ways of the ' possible start of the implosion' of the European Union. From the very start Schengan was adopted it was patently clear security was no longer controllable by any nation belonging to Schengan. Some countries recently took things into their own hands when immigrant/asylum issues were becoming impossible to cope with. They were called xenophobic by so many.

The attack on Paris has changed heart and minds and I for one hope Schengan as it stands is dead in the water. However the desire for a ' Federal Europe ' by some is so great it probably will survive but I am not so sure the majority of people throughout Europe will agree with those in the European Parliament.

My fear is the rise of the far right which has been given the perfect platform to gain momentum by the disastrous Schengan agreement which has caused problems from jobs, housing, schooling, welfare issues to security, mainly in the west European countries.

Schengan has hoisted the European Union on it's own petard to some degree and what I worry most about is could there be a return to/increase in the east/west European issues. .

As the UK never signed up to Schengen, as you say, POGS, I imagine UK residents are not directly affected, no EU identity document etc but I can well imagine queues will be longer.
It makes sense. I remember being horrified that on the last A level History trip I took to Berlin (coach) I actually didn't have to show my passport once until re entering the UK. Good thing I had it with me! Nothing going into France, and of course nothing from then on.
(I think the announcement regarding French border controls was in this morning's paper. )

I never quite understand this. As in mainland Europe the borders between countries run for many miles, how can they possibly police them all along the lengths of them anyway?

They can't. Neither can we protect our coastline.

Shouldn't it be easier to police the Schengen borders rather than all individual EU borders? Two police forces, country and Europol?

If you think about it, a determined terrorist would enter a country with or without border controls. The point really is that we seem quite capable of growing our own terrorists.

I remember reading about some refugees landing on Cyprus and wanting to come to the UK. The UK refused, so Cyprus is keeping them and giving them refugee status. Good for Cyprus.

If I have understood the news lately most of the terrorists are home grown, lived in Europe since childhood either in Belgum or France. I can't see that shutting the borders now can help.

To control borders you would have to put up 1000s km of electric fencing and shoot all those who tried to get through.
We have had that! And got rid of it!

What we really need is all the contacts on the internet open to control and I think that will come in the next decade. All that business about Shengen and borders is to quieten the public, especially those who don't like refugees.

Exactly- where we live- there is a border post on the road that could be checked- but north and sout of the road are miles and miles of fields and dense woods- and anyone can walk across, or use a mountain bike, etc- and no-one would ever know!

I have noticed, Margaret, that the Anonymous group are trying to close down all the internet groups that are affiliated to IS or have any connections, so they cannot plan attacks online or get funding that way.

The Annonymous Group declared war on the jihadis, also known as ISIL and Daesh, in the wake of the Paris attacks last week.

And now the group has released a statement claming the terrorists are planning up to EIGHT attacks on the same day - November 22.

Alongside the hashtags #22Daesh #OpParis, they published a list of events in France, the United States, Indonesia, Italy and Lebanon which are reportedly being targeted.

They hope that now the authorities have been alerted the jihadis will be forced to call off the planned attacks.

Bit worrying if the spooks haven't worked that out for themselves

As most of the comments already made show, the majority of people in the UK agree that open borders are not a good idea. It is not only from a security point of view that control of people coming into the country is advisable, it applies to the movement of criminals and goods such as arms and drugs and many other things we do not want here.
One of the main arguments for changes in the Customs control of '..anything to declare?...' to the '...red and green light system...' was the ability to use the improved methods of collating intelligence of the movement of people and goods. Taking away these controls from 27 countries' borders cannot be a good idea.

with reference to Cyprus,recent press reports have said that a third of those who landed have been proved to have terrorist links.Who wants that risk?

How much control does the red light system give us- precious little I think.
That and the draconian staff cuts. Someone asked about border control. How can our coast be controlled when there are so few officers now?

It might be worth pointing out to those who are considering voting to leave the EU, that any agreements about trade, joint research and academic work, and a whole host of other things which we may well need to enter into with the EU will almost certainly involve signing up to Schengen. Countries such as Switzerland and Norway have had to, and when the Swiss voted in a referendum at the beginning of the year to repeal the Schengen agreement, they found the restrictions which the EU placed on them were so restrictive they had to give in and reinstitute it.

I expect determined terrorists will find their way into a country, whether by legitimate means or not.

I remember reading about some refugees landing on Cyprus and wanting to come to the UK. The UK refused, so Cyprus is keeping them and giving them refugee status. Good for Cyprus.
djen
I think extensive checks were carried out on them and some were found to have suspect links - so why 'Good for Cyprus'?

famagusta-gazette.com/five-dhekelia-migrants-under-surveillance-for-possible-terrorist-link-rep-p30891-69.htm

Good for the UK. We need to be cautious, not naive.
(and don't say I am anti the refugees who need our help please.)