Cut out of their lives

Nanban My thoughts are with you. Don't give up...

Absolutely Crimson - it's a bit like prodding a sore tooth to see if it still hurts. How incredibly difficult life is for people today - it never occurred that Facebook could be used as a weapon! And that must be the case because of course if you don't want people to look, you can block it. We liked to think our son was posting up pictures of our grandson for our benefit - completely wrong now as it turns out.

These stories are so heartbreaking-how can some women be so cruel and jealous that they want their husbands/partners to cut their parents out of their lives! Nanban I do actually think your DIL must have a personality disorder and have your son under some kind of spell for him not to realise what damage she is doing by not keeping in touch with you-to say nothing of your grandchildren.
I adore my DIL and my son doesn't deliberately shut me out but even so-they live in New Zealand with their 4 month old baby girl. I saw her for a week in the summer and have barely had any contact since. I have seen the baby a couple of times in 3 months on skype but have not had a proper conversation or email from my son since they went back.
I know he loves me but he is so wrapped up in his life he doesn't seem to realise how much it hurts me when we have so little contact.
However I feel bad about complaining when I hear about parents and grandparents such as the ones on this page. I really hope that some of the issues will eventually be resolved and you will see your children and grandchildren. If only people would realise that life is so short and that family connections are the most important thing in life.

A new 'face' - hello Speldnan. How sad for you to be so far away. And, of course, if we all think back to the time when our children were young and we were so busy trying to get by, be good parents and pay the bills, we probably didn't find as much time as we should for our extended families. Nothing intentional, just life and of course your son feels very secure in your relationship and how lovely is that. You are loved that much is sure and hopefully things will sort themselves out.

Hello Speldnan
I so empathise with your hurt feelings that your son doesn't have much contact.In the last 10 years I often felt sad that in my son's contact time with my grandson they had male bonding activities with little time for me.
Now I so long for that contact to be restored between my son and grandson even if I see little of them.My son is so upset I sometimes fear I could lose him also.
Last week I helped my son clean and tidy his son's bedroom.He hasn't felt up to doing it since it was last slept in in Feb.It was so sad seeing signs of all they have done together and presents I have bought for him scattered around.
Be patient with your son .he is probably struggling with being a new dad -in a new country-with a new job? Skype is so wonderful you will be able to follow your grandson's progress.and eventually talk to him.
My thoughts are with you
Love

I understand exactly how you feel. 5 yrs ago my eldest son came round and sat with a long list of all the things my husband and I had done wrong, and then rang and said that he and his wife wanted no more to do with us. My granddaughters at that time were 4 and 3 weeks. Any gifts and cards we have sent since have been returned and we have kept them in the hope that if they ever come to find us we can show that we did care.

People want to blame my daughter in law, who is very involved with her own family, but my son must really hate me to do this. As you say not a day goes by when I don't question myself as to what I did wrong.

He also does not talk to his brother and sister.

The trouble is now that I am not sure how I would feel if he wanted to come back. His siblings,particularly his brother would find it very hard to forgive, seeing the pain my husband I have suffered.

We now do not know what t do about our will. It's very hard.

I feel for you WendyH regarding your will,your son has made the decision for you. If he no longer wants to be part of your life why don't you miss a generation and leave money in trust for the GC but ensure son does not have control.

I have just joined this site with my own hard story. And here's me thinking I'm the only one. I can't believe our children are causing us all so much terrible sorrow. I'm holding - or trying to hold - the intention in my heart that a healing will take place for all of us and that all these situations will come right with time. God bless you all.

I hate it when children are used as weapons by their parents, who does it help? Unless there is a really good reason, not an emotional one, why deprive your children of a wonderful loving relationship with their grandparents. When my ex-husband married me as wife number 2 his first wife threw a fit - though they had broken up long before I was on the scene. She used to threaten my MIL by saying 'if that woman ever comes to the house you will never see your grandchildren again'. At first my MIL went along with this and then decided to call her bluff as the children were quite often dumped on her so their mother could go on holiday with a boyfriend. She soon changed and we all saw the children. There should be a Grandparents' Rights Bill to enable grandparents to see the children even if the parents have divorced. It may be difficult for the parents to have to have contact with their ex-s parents, but let us act like grownups and think of the children not themselves. I've heard this story so many times and feel for the people involved.

Thank you for your comment Harrigran you are right the decision has been made by my son already.

It is such a tragedy as you say dorsetpennt there is so much pain for grandparents.

What an awful pointless waste it all is - I've just caught up with all the latest from you. WendyH - your story could be mine and the 'children used as weapons' a phrase I've heard so many times. Outrageous and how I long to get angry instead of simply heartbroken. There are so many challenges in life and natural tragedies - ill health etc what is the point of being cruel and spiteful for the hell of it.

As for making your will - our aim in life has been to provide our children with everything possible for their happiness and at the end a windfall to secure their futures - now only one of them will scoop the pot! And that in itself is an enormous sadness.

We have asked for the mediation process to be put in place but find that they are moving to another country so that's a non-starter. And, yes if there were legal rights for grandparents, it wouldn't be a perfect solution but it would keep contact, and a channel open for discussion. Our grandchildren are being deprived by their parents of their families. How will they react when they discover what they have missed. Hopefully, they will come find us.

Mostly, I just miss my son and I'd settle for just seeing him once more.

This is a black/bleak day for those 1million grandparents denied access to their grandchildren after publication of the Family Justice review.This gives no hope of any improvement in the present situation.I feel so depressed and tearful.-and worried about my son's state of mind.
The Daily Mail front page headline 'New Rights for Grandparents' on 1/4/2011
has certainly proved to be an April Fools Day joke.
We grandparents have done nothing to deserve this heartbreak.

I feel another petition coming on. Need to do some thinking about this, as I haven't read the report, and I don't know if it is a retrograde step, or just that no further progress has been made to date and there's no prospect of progress being recommended in the report. Has anyone read the report? Can't rely on the media.

I had a quick look at it

http://www.familylaw.co.uk/system/uploads/attachments/0003/4421/FamilyJusticeReview.pdf

There is a lot of reading and understanding and I am not very "legally" minded.

It's about time us 'older people' stopped being invisible and were recognised for our achievements, experience and life knowledge and politicians and their like should take notice. It is only horribly true that when we are young we simply never imagine being 'old people'. We never see that old people have lived. In fact young people today live vicariously through TV and computers - at least we were out there doing it all for real.

We need a title - Over the Hill and on the Heap or Wrinklies have Worth - any suggestions out there? x

How about GranPower?!?!?

Ah, but isn't it the sad truth - we have no power - not any that's recognised anycase!

I've just had an image of the Spice Girls as grannies!!!!!!! Now there's a thought.

We might be collectively powerful, though! What do other Gransnetters think?

I agree with you Carol. I think we could be make a difference - collectively. I am happy to stand up and be counted. I am not sure where to start though. I have been having a look on the internet and there are many groups out there who are campaigning for grandparents rights but I think we have our own ready made group here and we could perhaps create our own bandwagon instead of jumping on someone else's?

Having said that I notice that Gloria Hunniford seems to do a lot of work with the Grandparents Association.

I'm with you there, Carol! We've all come through quite a bit, mainly, and without the experience we've gained and tried to pass on, we wouldn't be the strong women/men that we are. GRANPOWER it could be?

Just had another thought . I think grandparents rights in Scotland are slightly different to those in England (not forgetting those abroad either )

I read the old article, extract below, from the Herald.

^The law north of the border differs slightly, in that grandparents in Scotland can apply for access without first getting permission from the courts, but there is no automatic right to contact - and the Scottish Government has repeatedly insisted it will not amend the legislation to include any legal "presumption" of visitation rights for grandparents.

"Rights are given in relation to children in order to allow a person to fulfil his or her parental responsibilities, not to ensure that person's continuing relationship with the child", said a spokesperson.

However, the Scottish Government compromised with the creation of the Grandparents' Charter in 2006 which sets out the rights of grandparents, but does not make them legally binding.^

http://www.heraldscotland.com/grandparents-getting-a-raw-deal-under-family-laws-1.910423

Don't we have any Family Law solicitors on GN?

Do we have a legal team here on GN?

I did study SW but my knowledge on up to date law/issues is limited.

How about if we contact Gloria Hunniford via Gransnet and say we want to add our collective voice to any campaign to recognise the rights of children to have contact with their grandparents? Shall I ask Gransnet team to have a look at our thread?

Yep greenmossigel "GRANPOWER" could be the way forward

Carol, I think your idea to contact the GN team is a very good one. Feel free to add my name - count me in on this one.

What do other people think?

www.familylaw.co.uk/system/uploads/attachments/0003/4421/FamilyJusticeReview.pdf
I've just had a quick look at the lengthy report, and this seems to be the section that has caused such consternation:

109. The child’s welfare should be the court’s paramount consideration, as required by the Children Act 1989. No change should be made that might compromise this principle. Accordingly, no legislation should be introduced that creates or risks creating the perception that there is a parental right to substantially shared or equal time for both parents. For that reason and taking account of further evidence we also do not recommend a change canvassed in our interim report that legislation might state the importance to the child of a meaningful relationship with both parents after their separation where this is safe. While true, and indeed a principle that guides court decisions, we have concluded that this would do more harm than good.
110. The need for grandparents to apply for leave of the court before making an application for contact should remain. This prevents hopeless or vexatious applications that are not in the interests of the child. We note that it does not, contrary to some views, lead to a need to pay two sets of fees.
111. To support shared parental responsibility separating parents should be encouraged, in consultation with their children, to develop flexible agreements to fit their circumstances. Parents should be encouraged to develop a Parenting Agreement to set out arrangements for the care of their children post separation. Government and the judiciary should consider how a signed Parenting Agreement could have evidential weight in any subsequent parental dispute.

The gist of this, as I read it, is that the report urges for parents to reach agreement about the care of their child/ren with a Parenting Agreement that could be examined in the event of dispute, and that automatic rights of parents and gransparents are not in the child/ren's interest, as some child contact may not be safe for, or in the best interest of, the child/ren. Nor should children be led to believe that there is a legal right of parents to have a 'meaningful relationship' with them, if it isn't a safe prospect where parents have split and there has been mistreatment of the child/ren, who may be relieved that the relationship has ended. I don't quibble with this, but unfortunately there is a presumption in the report that discounts responsible, loving fathers and grandparents being able to continue their relationship with the child/ren, unless there is good will from the mother. Disruption to contact can be so harmful. It does acknowledge that the system can be biased towards mothers.

If we want to proceed with supporting a campaign, we need carefully chosen words to express our support for the rights of children to have contact with responsible grandparents, without arguing for those grandparents who do not have their grandchildren's best interests at heart. Sorry if I'm waffling, I'm trying to unravel my own thoughts at the same time.