Another sob story.

Hang on there, who says we see DILs in the light that you describe? I have another DIL who is assertive, a woman in her own right, tells it how it is and is clear she puts her man and her children first, but she is loving and kind and if she notices that there's a bit of an imbalance every now and then, is first to wade in and say 'would you like to join in with something?'

We certainly aren't seeing DILs as you describe, some Gransnetters are saying that they have a dilemma with an unreasonable, even disturbed person, and I am sure that some DILs will also report that they have an unreasonable MIL. If you read more threads you will see where some tough advice has been given on unreasonable expectations of DILs.

The general view of relationships with DILs and sons is that we start taking a back seat, and be as understanding and helpful as we can, and not jump in interfering and controlling. Of course that should be how it is. Have you given yourself chance to read other threads so that message comes through?

In my case, I have one abusive ex-DIL who has made her husband and son's lives miserable, and has stated categorically in writing that she intends to wreck my son's life. The evidence in a 2 inch thick file has been given to the court, and it has taken the last year to reinstate contact between son and dad, with the help of grandson's school and now the family GP, who has disclosed that she has given false information in order to wreak further damage. Happily, this has now been corrected and she will struggle to do the same again - she has moved on to another victim, unfortunately for him.

Granbunny does make a valid point though. We usually only have one side of the story and it is natural for parents to take their child's side in distressing cases like the ones we read about on Gransnet. In many cases there does not seem any hope of the hatred between dil and mil abating which is a shame for the grandchildren.

One of the things one is told by agencies such as Relate is that it is never 100 percent one person's responsibility when a relationship goes toxic.

I don't think GNetters would seek our help and advice unless they genuinely have cause for distress. They are certainly not merely playing for sympathy. One or two DsIL have ventured onto our forums to tell us their opposite experience and we have treated them in just the same way.

Granbunny, I should say from the start that I do not have the problems that have been described here but I have seen them at close hand in a family that I know well. I am well aware that just as there are some DILs that want to keep their husbands all to themselves so there are some mothers who want to keep the same relationship they had with their sons before they were married.

In the family that I know I can honestly say that the Grandmother is a balanced and warm person who has tried to welcome her DIL and to build a good relationship. What seems to happen is that the benefits of this, including the financial ones, are accepted but there is resentment and nastiness. The children sometimes seem to be used as a weapon with the poor Dad caught in the middle.

Just as you point out that not all DILs are cruel, heartless and nasty, they are not all angels either, any more than Grans are.

My heart goes out to anyone who is caught up in a less than happy family situation.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that posters aren't genuinely distressed. Many of the stories are heartbreaking.

Am a new GN participant so just getting the hang of this. It seems that in this case the DiL is rather histrionic! if she did spoil christmas for her children by taking down tree etc. that is a bit OTT. However the emotive term 'have a bit of compassion' was , as Danjo recognised, an unfortunate expression of her disappoinment at DiL's attitude. Sometimes habits of behaviour develop in relationships and each party is maintaining the situation often without meaning to. Danjo if you can try to rethink how you respond to your DS and DiL and see if it makes a difference.
You may have already tried to say 'it would be good to see you in the next couple of months. Let me know if you have any time' rather than ' When are you coming to visit next?'
I have found this more 'take it or leave it' approach (even though that is not how you feel!) has paid dividends in various situations. Anything worth a try!

granbunny hello. Not sure if you've posted before as I've been out of the loop for a couple of weeks, but welcome to Gransnet. I was interested in your remark,
'the fact that you see daughters in law as people who 'hold the power' demonstrates that your perception of these situations is of a power struggle.'
and would like to offer a comment as one who has taught on issues of power and control.
In family law, a parent who has been denied custody of his child by a trial court may file a habeas corpus petition; literally an acknowledgement that somebody else has the child in question and must produce him/her. In a family dispute with a grandparent the parents literally do have the power to produce or withhold the child. It can not therefore be a struggle for power that a grandparent indulges in, as power always rests with parents unless a court order is in place or until the child is able to act independently. Therefore I would suggest that what Danjo said is merely a factual assessment of the situation; parents have the power to facilitate or withhold visits between their children and grandparents.

The legal position is an interesting one but many power struggles taking place in families never involve the law but rather proceed through emotional/financial manipulation etc.

I've just picked this thread up. Of course we are only telling one side and of course that must be assumed to be biassed. All I can say is that we welcomed our DiL with open hearts, house, purse and minds and what has happened way back since the engagement is totally out of our comprehension or expectation. From the start of The Troubles we watched our words and actions and made a positive effort to do whatever pleased her. When the first baby came the situation completely disintegrated because she had complete power and used it. If we knew why, if there was a reasonable explanation, if we had done something awful for sure we could make every effort to put it right. We in fact apologized for causing any hurt or problem but truly without knowing what for but just to appease. The more we tried the more she hurt us. Completely out of our experience - the bottom line is that power, control, hurt please her far more than anything else. Where is our beloved son in all this - she has his babies and standing in his shoes what would we do.

I too had a friend who went through this and I never fully comprehended it all, I made all the same comments and what I thought was helpful suggestions and encouragements. I had the suspicion that it couldn't be all one-sided. In my shoes now, I could bite my tongue out. He returned after 10 years.

where do your sons find all these evil young women, for whom power and hurt are the only joys in life? what made them look for such creatures?

realistically, there must be some downright nasty young women in the world, as the human race is a mixed bag of endless possibilities.

but have any of you ever been troubled by a domineering, trouble-causing mother in law who wants to exert power and control over her son, no matter whom she hurts on the way?

and are you absolutely sure that you haven't become that person?

I will take up that challenge granbunny. No, I am not a domineering type of MIL and during the difficult time I have experienced with ex-DIL, I have behaved appropriately and continued to offer support and be enabling so that she would never be in a position to use any negative behaviour against me. I still think you have missed the point of some of these discussions. They are about dealing with people who are unreasonable and unwilling to share or recognise that there are other significant family members in their spouse's life. There is morbid jealousy and a desire to inflict harm by behaving in this way.

As for where these sons find such women, well mine was fresh out of university and not at all street-wise and she homed in on him and fooled him into believing she was several years younger then she actually was, told him she could not get pregnant, and he was naive. She got pregnant and he made a long-term commitment to her, then spent the next 12 years suffering her abuse, hoping he could hang on till his child was older. He left after years of trying, with nothing reciprocated. She has now found another victim and done the same to him.

I remain polite to her and treat her respectfully, although she doesn't return the courtesy.

I would surmise that the majority of us here on Gransnet have perfectly amicable relationships with their DsIL. The minority who have problems share them with us and we - hopefully - empathise and give them what advice we can. Because these issues do loom large, it looks as if many people are looking for sympathy and advice, but really you could probably count them on the fingers of, at the most, both hands.

carol, you sound immensely reasonable. but i haven't missed the point. you think that family members have rights over individuals - i don't. if my child decided not to see me, it would be the end of my world but i'd have to deal with it myself. i couldn't blame a child's partner.

I am so scared at the thought of getting a daughter-in-law. Because, of course, it has to be a girl you haven't brought up yourself. You could get anybody! Though I suppose DS might have some judgement.

And I do want a grandaughter.

I can at least say that my DD is much loved by her inlaws.

Grannybunnys, who or what are you?

I'm afraid you have missed the point if you believe that is what I have said *nanabunny'. It seems you haven't read the other threads, nor have you read mine properly, so I see no point in trying to reason with you.

Sorry, meant granbunny

Grannybunny it seems to be you have been through some experiences yourself, that makes you have these opinions. Have you had a domineering Mother-in law yourself?

jeni, good question. granbunny, how would you like to post a profile so that we can learn more about you?

granbunny has a good point there. If it did out that my dil really didn't like me, I would hope that my son would be fair minded enough, and strong enough, to continue seeing me and would bring any grandchildren to see us.

Not that he bothers to sees me much anyway.

Not since he's met her

turn out - not 'out'

(It doesn't bode well really, does it? )

I'm all for "emotional/financial manipulation" petallus.

evil

jing, perhaps he thinks his girlfriend might be afraid of you...