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To expect son to pay something, at least!

(38 Posts)
numberplease Sat 21-Apr-12 18:40:59

Over the last 15 years or so, our eldest son, child number 4, has been borrowing money from our eldest daughter, who is partly disabled and still lives with us. Granted, she very rarely goes out, and doesn`t spend an awful lot on herself, but as she says, her money in the bank is for her old age (she`s 48). But what he owes is somewhere in the region of £6,000, and although he initially paid about £50 a month, he hasn`t even attempted to pay her anything for about 2 years now, always claiming to be "skint". Yet last year they paid £400 for a husky puppy, and have just announced that they`ve bought another, to be collected on MAY 1st, costing more than the other one, they`re also bragging that they`ve both got PPI money to come back, he`s got £1,004 to come back, his wife is getting just short of £5,000. My husband asked today if they were giving his sister any of it, and the answer was that it`s spoken for already, and he was most put out to have even been asked! There was quite a chilly atmosphere after that, but in my mind, they shouldn`t keep rubbing my daughter`s nose in it if they don`t intend to pay her back. But to cap it all, just before they left, he asked his dad if he could let him have some money (we`re paying them to do some decorating for us), as they`ve no electric and need to top up their electric card! We don`t intend to pay them till they`ve done the job, because it would be just like them not to finish it, so hubby said he had no money on him, but they weren`t happy. Should we expect him to pay up, or should my daughter write it off as a lost cause?

greenmossgiel Sat 21-Apr-12 18:50:25

Yes, they should definitely pay up, number. If they can manage to buy another dog and feed both of them (the dogs!) then they can afford to pay back your daughter. Huskies are big dogs with big appetites. Are the couple both in work? Maybe he could set up a direct debit for your daughter so that a certain amount could be paid every week?

shysal Sat 21-Apr-12 19:00:41

I can't understand why it hasn't been your son's first priority to repay his sister! I am surprised they they have the nerve to face her. They are really taking the p--s. If it had been a bank loan I have no doubt that they would have found the money for regular payments. I hope they find a conscience soon. Don't let them get away with it! flowers to your daughter.

numberplease Sat 21-Apr-12 19:17:59

Yes, Green, they are both working, and he gets good money, they`re just not very good at handling it. And Shysal, I also don`t know how they have the gall to keerp coming here and bragging about what they`re buying. Trouble is, my daughter`s a bit like me, not very good at being confrontational, and my husband is a bit too far the other way, so then rows ensue.

greenmossgiel Sat 21-Apr-12 19:22:28

Can your daughter perhaps say that she's tied up her money in some way,*number*, and needs her brother to pay her back in regular amounts as this will be her income for the time being? (A long shot, maybe?)

glassortwo Sat 21-Apr-12 19:49:54

My BIL was like this with my in laws, he seemed to think it was ok to borrow and then on the next visit rub their noses in it showing what they had bought or what they had done.

I think maybe if you have a quiet word with him, he will be shocked that you have taken that stand if you are usually like me trying to smooth things over. Hope things turn out ok for you.

Bronte Sat 21-Apr-12 21:03:36

That really is a lot of money to owe someone. You could probably take him to court to have that repaid. Someone has to speak up for your daughter. She’s going to need that money in the future for her own care.

numberplease Sat 21-Apr-12 22:33:57

The trouble with him is, he`s always got his own way in regard to borrowing money, because no matter how many times we`ve said no, he just persists until he wears you down. My daughter keeps saying that she`s not lending him anymore money, but then he plays the "can`t feed the kids" card, or "no electric, can`t cook", then she feels guilty and hands it over. He knows she hasn`t tied her money up in anything, would expect to see or be told what it was.

imjingl Sat 21-Apr-12 22:37:43

Could you get her to put her remaining money, or at least some of it, in, say, five year savings bonds. They pay better interest than ordinary savings accounts and she would be able to tell him that she can't get at the money. (She could if necessary, but she could keep that quiet).

glammanana Sat 21-Apr-12 23:16:39

I am afraid that it would have to stop right now even if it did cause bad feeling within the family,he needs to be told that he must repay what he owes,surely they realize that another dog is going to double the food bill and vets fees how thoughtless of them,my heart goes out to you number as it must be very hard to be put in the situation where he constantly wears you down.

harrigran Sat 21-Apr-12 23:35:12

He really does need advice on how to manage money and live within his means. I think you need to find some tough love number one can't live beyond your means and then splurge on pets and material goods expecting family to fill the coffers. I would never see my family starve but I would not fund their whims.

numberplease Sat 21-Apr-12 23:47:37

Thank you all for your replies. I can`t see him ever paying her what he owes in it`s entirety, but if he`d just offer some, it would be a step in the right direction. We`ll just have to persist in our efforts. You`d think that a bloke would be able to manage his finances by the time he got to 42!

Meercat Sun 22-Apr-12 11:47:53

This sounds a really horrible situation for you. When you said that he would know that your daughter hadn't tied up her money and would expect to see or be told what she had done with sounded as if the demands were verging on bullying. It certainly sounds as if he thinks he is entitled to have what he wants and live how he wants.

By 42 he should certainly be able to look after himself and whatever steps you and your daughter take to make sure he can't continue like this would be to his benefit in the long term. 5 year savings certificates sound like an excellent idea and might help to break the pattern. As for not being able to feed the children, how about offering food parcels rather than money!!

Bronte Sun 22-Apr-12 12:22:39

There’s a solution for when he plays the ‘kid’s need food’ card. Buy the kids some food but refuse to give him anymore money. He is being enabled, which means that he won’t ever stand on his own two feet and take responsibility unless you leave him to do it. He might be 42 but it sounds like some ‘tough love’ is well overdue.

HildaW Sun 22-Apr-12 13:30:16

Number please, such a horrid situation for you but I tend to agree that by always 'finally' giving in to him you have almost trained him to be this way. He has learned that he can act irresponsibly with money because there is always someone else who has to act responsibly. Dont make excuses for him anymore, he has got to learn that at some point its HIS fault, HIS responsibility. Its going to be horrible for you as he has learned that if he behaves like a sulky teenager he is bailed out but for everyones future peace of mind all the family will have to present a united front. Good luck, but I think you know whats got to happen.

mickey Sun 22-Apr-12 18:50:19

Your son is taking you and your daughter for a ride-an expensive one at that. Don,t let them do it-your d. will need that money later on. Do you think he would help her if she got into financial difficulties-would he eck. The thing is -some people think owing money to family is OK-and need not be paid back. I lent a good few thousand pounds to a close f. member several years ago. I have never seen a penny of it -nor ever will. Believe me it leaves you very resentful and bitter. Don,t let any more go-and tell everyone in the family if he carries on asking. It is tantamount to abuse to do this to his vulnerable sister-stick up for her-and let someone else do so if you don,t feel up to it.I wish I had.

Lucyella Sun 22-Apr-12 18:50:46

I can't understand how this situation has come about. For your son to behave in this way he must have been given everything he wanted from a very early age. He obviously has no conscience about the way he has treated his sister or you. It would also seem that his wife hasn't either. They should be told by your daughter in no uncertain terms that she needs her money paid back to her starting now and that she will not be making any more loans in the future. Her needs should definitely come before theirs. Providing for children and buying and feeding dogs is not his sister's responsibility and he knows this. He just finds her an easy target. I do hope something can be done to sort this out but unless you and your daughter are prepared to say no I can't see him stopping.

Riverwalk Sun 22-Apr-12 19:17:19

Of course he should pay it back. That's a staggering amount of money your son owes your daughter.

As she's disabled and still living at home at 48 she's obviously very vulnerable to your son's bullying tactics and needs your help.

It's unlikely that he will pay what he owes but at least take steps to prevent him from taking any more money from his sister. It's possible that if you do take a firm stand it will affect your relationship with him but I think your priority should be your daughter's well-being, considering his past behaviour.

Pennysue Sun 22-Apr-12 21:44:32

If your son was hitting your daughter you would tell him to stop. In my eyes that is exactly what he is doing - being a bully. I understand that he is doing some decorating for you - don't pay him, give the money to your daughter. What do your other children think of his behaviour.

Sorry if this seems a harsh posting, but a disabled person should not be taken advantage of by anyone, let alone a sibling. I understand you do not like confrontation, neither to I, but if anyone (including her brother) was to treat my daughter like this, they would have me to deal with.

Next time he says he can't feed the kids, suggest he sells one of the dogs and not sponge of his family.

petallus Sun 22-Apr-12 22:25:54

numberplease I wonder how your daughter feels about the money her brother owes to her. You say your daughter is partly disabled but I don't know whether this means she needs someone to act on her behalf in such matters. If she is capable of looking after her own interests then the matter is primarily between her and her brother.

What a difficult situation. You have been advised to stand your ground with your son but I am guessing it is not going to be easy for you. Good luck.

numberplease Sun 22-Apr-12 23:20:50

Petallus, by partly disabled, I mean that she can`t get around very well, due to very bad rheumatoid arthritis, very rarely leaves the house, but she is completely compos mentis, manages her own banking and spending. She wants her brother to pay her back, but is willing to wait if he really doesn`t have the money, but it really seems as if he`s rubbing her nose in it, bragging about how much his dogs have cost, and about him and his wife getting the PPI payouts, and yet saying that he still can`t afford to pay her anything. In temper yesterday, he did say to give her the money that we were paying them for decorating, as part repayment, but that`s not really how she wanted to get money off him. I don`t want a family rift, none of us do, it`s so difficult.

yogagran Sun 22-Apr-12 23:23:32

Thinking of you number - how incredibly hard for you to be stuck in the middle flowers

petallus Sun 22-Apr-12 23:27:24

Thanks for the clarification numberplease. Sorry to hear of your daughter's rheumatoid arthritis.

I do know from my own experience how upsetting it is when someone who owes you money doesn't pay it back but instead buys unnecessary stuff for themselves. Feels like they are taking the p*

petallus Sun 22-Apr-12 23:27:55


petallus Sun 22-Apr-12 23:28:43

How weird. I'm trying to put a p and three asterisks but obviously I'm doing something wrong.