So called left wingers who pay school fees

My kids started their primary education in Leicestershire,kitty and were subjected to that county's avant-garde notions. What a good thing that the trend for open plan schools has died the death. I was Chair of Governors at such a school and every OFSTED inspection made the point that it was detrimental to teaching and learning, which it certainly was. We managed to use these reports to bulldoze persuade the local authority to apply for a grant to build a new school in which all classes were taught in separate rooms out of earshot of the other classes. Kids loved it, teachers loved it and parents thoroughly approved. As did OFSTED.

This is hard - I don't know what we would have done if our local schools had been 'bad' (whatever that means, my 'bad' could be your 'good'). And yet, what I have been trying to say is that it is a vicious circle. Same for the health service. Schools which have some problems, become worse and worse as those who can afford it, who are also often those who have more influence and clout, jump ship. If all the parents who could make a difference and influence things leave- then schools become more and more polarised.

It is very difficult in the UK, as things have gone so far for far too long- with a long traditions of (so-called) public schools and fee paying schools, CofE and other denominational schools, etc. In most other European countries, this has not been the case, and children have always grown up and been educated in mixed social groups- and the parents who can support the whole school for all the children. The concept of 'doing one's best for one's children' - even if to the detriment of others, and society at large, is an anathema- as it is detrimental to all in the long term.

I'd perhaps make a comparison with the immunisation of children - what is more important, the right of an individual to say 'no' - with the current huge increase in diseases like measles, etc- with the enormous risks involved. Or the rights of children as a whole being protected by a 90%+ immunisation. In many countries, children are not accepted into school until their immunisations are up-to-date- and this is accepted as best for all. My parents always taught me that my 'rights' had to be curtailed if it affected the rights of others.

I am fully aware this might be controversial, but the bigger picture is sometimes more important than the individual. Do we want a society which is so polarised that the 'lucky and better off' cannot play in the park or walk to school safely? Think of the situation in South Africa for instance- where anyone with a higher standard of living has to drive the children to school armed with a tazer and a gun - and live behind electrified fences. We do get the society we deserve sometimes.

Here all the kids go to the local school, and walk there happily together, rich or poor, irrespective of class, colour and religion. We always felt that it was our duty to help the school system for all, not just our own- and that in the end, it would also benefit our children in a different way.

Of course choosing to spend limited resources on school fees rather than other things is a sacrifice let alone working two jobs, longer hours etc to earn it in the first place. But, it should in a perfect world not be necessary, it should be that all children get the education best for them, but the world is far from perfect and doing your child down won't improve it. And then of course there is the argument that all children should be able to reach the peaks of whatever they choose - reality is that some children just are less able, less committed, less focussed and pushing them into a top-level education would be as bad for them as not.

I have not posted so far as everything I think has been said - I sent my two to the local comprehensive school even though we could have afforded (just) to send them to a very 'good' school - Upton Convent. I was a head in the same authority and apart from my own scruples I thought it would send out a very bad signal if I did not use the system for my own children.
I agree absolutely with granjura that the wider community has to be considered and the vaccination question is a very good parallel.
My daughter became a parent governor of her children's C of E primary school (the only school in the village) and she was able to get many improvements implemented.

Yes, I would have had much more respect for those neighbours and friends who opted to send their children to private schools, due to large classes at our local primary- had they then decided to become School Governors or get involved at local level to improve things. But they didn't - once people opt out, be it from education or health services- they rarely take time and effort, and use their own influence (because of their high ranking or professional jobs) to improve things for the majority. Would getting stuck in, although their children didn't go to the local school, be 'doing down' their own?

Good on ya, jura!

That was for your previous post in particular.

Granjura - we did try to become school governors but were discounted because we had opted out!

I sent my children to private schools because my son was being bullied at his junior school and couldn't have coped with a large comp, which at that time had a bad reputation. Having done it,for one, we felt we had to GDP the same for dd!
In fact, she is an 'elbows out type and would have been fine)
I was a governer of our local church school. Also on the PTA of their stare junior school!

Leicestershire Director of Education in the 70s was just slightly prejudiced jeni and very left wing.

That chap who had an affair with one of his pupils and then became something to do with education was at this comp!

My ex worked in Adult Ed in Leicestershire, so we heard a good deal about the Director. jeni, do you mean the former head of OFSTED whom the BBC trot out on every possible occasion to comment on educational issues?

Does his name start C

Sir Chris Woodhead.

That's him!
See my point

Yes!

Quite! Private education!

My DC went to private schools and it was the best thing I ever did.

So ...l should we have left my grandson to struggle on in receiving an inferior education??????

You have only said that his class teacher couldn't guarantee to hear him read once a week. I've no idea how often my kids were listened to reading because I never asked. I didn't need to ask because I both saw and heard them reading at home every day and I also saw that their reading was improving all the time – this without them ever having to open a school 'reading book' too. I don't know the details of your case, nanadog, but there's often a lot parents and other family members can do to help a child who is deemed to be "struggling" at school. And, what is more, this has been shown many times to be what makes more difference to a child's education than almost anything else.

No bags that was just one example of how even something so basic wasn't even being done. I taught at primary level for many years and then became an education advisor. I have contributed chapters to course books on teaching and learning, so believe me I understand what makes a good primary school and this one was far from that. Both his parents are teachers too. The reason we decided to move was precisely because we were having to do all the teaching ourselves out of school hours.

So we have a young child, tired after a day at school, who ought to be relaxing at home, playing, and we were having to teach him basic maths and teach him his sounds and sound blends, show him how letters and words are formed and written, etc. all work which ought to have been done at school. His school report was so badly written, full of grammatical errors and spelling mistakes that it was returned to be re-written. My DD complained to the headteacher on numerous occasions as did other parents, but things did not improve. Needless to say their OFSTED report reflected the poverty of provision at this school.

So after two wasted years of trying we have thrown in the towel.

That does sound bad, dog. I certainly would not criticise anyone for choosing, if they can, to move their child to a better school where they will be well taught. The never-ending question is what to do about such a school as the child was moved from.

I think the first thing to do is to rally other parents, perhaps even call a meeting, but many people lack the confidence to take on what they see as authority figures. That is why it is so important for more confident and articulate parents to be involved. If a child is being bullied at school, there should be a school policy in place to deal with it. Parents may need to be very persistent to get the school to act. The big problem is the downward spiral, where even good teachers become demoralised and move on, leaving only the mediocre and uncommitted. I think most research has shown that the quality of the Head teacher is the most important factor in the success of a school. I have seen schools turned round by having a new and enthusiastic head. If enough parents complain to the education authority a poor head teacher could be replaced.

That is true, gn, and I've seen it happen. When the Ht of my elder children retired she was replaced by someone who was a good class teacher but who I did not think would make a good HT. I was on the interviewing and appointment panel for the new HT and spelled out my reservations about this man. Unfortunately, the (ahem) consensus of the majority disagreed and he was appointed. The school went down hill. (My kids had left by then, thankfully). Eventually, after pressure from parents and other interested parties (not including me; I was busy elsewhere by then), this man was moved to a much smaller school a long way away and a new HT was appointed who did indeed "turn the school around". Can't say I liked his technique, to be honest, but he knew how to get the right boxes ticked.

I agree completely Great, especially that the school reflects the standard of leadership. Sadly LEAs are losing their teeth, and personnel, as cuts and government policies bite. It is up to articulate parents, or the governors if they have the necessary skills to do something. But, who really has the energy or time to take on such a task? My DD did try in her own way, she was persistent, she didn't give up easily, but after a full day teaching herself, and a toddler as well, she honestly had very little left to give.