BENEFITS AND VERY STRANGE FRIEND!!

I am saying nothing!

Goose Forgive me if I say that they must have taken you for a sitting duck. I am afraid I would have behaved more like an irate swan if it had been me.

Too late, of course. His parents should have done that long ago.

Well, there's an olde worlde saying that goes something on the lines of 'never a lender nor a borrower be', maybe another version should be - 'never a mug or a giver be'...but I'm still left wondering how these Food Bank thingy's work

What a cheek, sponging off you and then taking from the food bank. Goose this man must be a very special friend for you to open your house to the couple. I had DS and DIL live with me for five months and I know how much extra work it causes.
I believe food banks are abused and it is a great shame.

Thanks harrigran, that's what I'm beginning to realise as well (that Food Banks are being abused). It's a shame, because for me personally, I'd sometimes angelically throw something into the Food Bank box on my way out of the local Supermarket, but after this, I shan't bother.

It's very refreshing to hear Gransnetters saying what they really feel about certain sections of society taking advantage of the benefits system and apparent problems with food banks distribution without being immediately shot down for their opinions. I may have spoken too soon, of course...

No, I was thinking exactly the same thing Ana

...erm, crossing fingers and toes and anything else that can be crossed

Totally agree, Ana. Back to OP. I actually saw this with my own eyes and it was my own Sister.
She was one of life's takers ( including from me)
One night the 'tally man' came for the payment on the suite. She convinced him she was so poor HE GAVE HER MONEY!!
She was getting all her benefits and working full time!

petra

Just reading about the family from Brighton who were fraudulently claiming benefits for their disabled children. The children were attending private schools, were fully fit and had appeared in West End shows. The family was receiving, tax free, over £10,000 per month - equivalent to a £215,000pa salary. This fraud continued, at various levels over eight years.

Notwithstanding the fact that the claim was fraudulent, are checks not made when these vast sums are being paid out to one family?

I am aware it isn't the norm, I am aware that the vast majority of benefit claimants are genuine but there is abuse of the system. It is our money. I just hope the reforms to the system will make this sort of abuse, impossible.

In an ideal world everybody would pay every penny of tax without using every worm hole to avoid it and benefits would always go only to those in genuine need, but the world isn't perfect and just because some people cheat on benefits and food banks is not a good reason not to support food banks, many people are in dire poverty and need them.

I would rather give food and/or money knowing some of it will go to cheats rather than know someone genuinely in need will be unable to get help because I will only donate to those charities that can guarantee that not one cheat will benefit from their aid, an impossible promise.

but I still ponder as to how people that don't really need the financial help are actually able to just go along to Food Banks and pick up free grub - I'm a raw recruit on the subject as I've not been to the bank myself, but assumed there was some sort of vetting proceedure in place to ensure the genuingly needy receive help over the not-so-needy (and no, I'm not calling anyone a scrounger)

Did anyone read the Nick Ross article at the weekend. He has come to accept that the more opportunity ' out there' for people to do wrong; the more people do.

Yes, I thought you had to be referred to a Food Bank by an outside agency, not just turn up and be given food. I also thought that they did not give regular parcels but only in emergencies to tide people over. Of course there are a lot of different organisations running food banks and may be some local groups running them do not do the kind of checks that the big national charities do.

FlicketyB the Food Bank here is run by a group of local churches, so I reckon what you say about agency checks is right

Some food banks require a referral and organisations like the CAB can do this. Other food banks welcome all comers which could be a mistake.

Yes indeed! No one would want people in need to go without - but if just anyone can turn up and help themselves....

I didn't see the Nick Ross programme that Petra refers to, but I don't think that just because there is more opportunity to commit fraud, it follows that more people will do so. Other factors have to be present.
In the business world the phenomenon of the 'Fraud Triangle' is well accepted - the idea that for an employee to commit fraud, 3 things have to be present. These are opportunity, motivation, and rationalisation.
Translating these ideas to benefit fraud, opportunity is increased if probity checks are not carried out cost-effectively.
Motivation is obvious, if the benefits to which someone is entitled do not allow them to cover their basic needs.
Rationalisation is the interesting one. This is the idea that someone who is basically honest (as I think the vast majority of people are) can convince him or herself that it is ok on this particular occasion to be dishonest for some reason - in the workplace this may be, for example, that the employer does not appreciate the employee's efforts and they deserve rather more in the way of reward than they are receiving.
Someone may decide for many reasons that it is ok to commit benefit fraud, but I think the materialistic culture we live in, exemplified on the Birthday Party thread, is one of the factors. Advertising and popular culture lead to an expectation among some people that benefits should not provide simply a roof over one's head, warm clothes and enough to eat, but holidays, smart phones, Sky television and designer trainers.
It may be possible to reduce the opportunity for fraud, but reducing rationalisation is far more difficult.
However, I continue to believe that only a very small minority of benefit claims are fraudulent, and while some politicians live like kings and professional people bring the country to its knees through their greed, there is little hope that much will change.

Well sad janeainsworth. Just because they can, doesn't mean they do! It's been shown time and again that benefits are not claimed by many people who are entitled to claim them, and many employees who are randomly audited have not bothered to claim expenses they are entitled to.

I know from approving expenses claims that the many employees don't claim out of pocket expenses far outnumber the ones who try to fiddle them.

But it's no good sticking our head in the sand. As Ana has said no one wants the truly needy to go without and I don't expect there is anyone on this forum who would let people starve or suffer.
There is blatant abuse of the benefit system. No doubt about this and yes, it is quite widespread. When I was working I saw this all the time,
What we need to remember is that every work-shy scrounger is taking money from those who are in genuine need and leaving less in the pot for others.

One billion pounds fraudulently claimed in benefits is bad and needs addressing. 17 billion pounds of tax avoidance pales that amount into insignificance, but BOTH need dealing with.

Whenim Well said!

This taking advantage when you can of food banks, benefit systems, Tax avoidance sounds to me. just like the politicians with their expenses.

Whether they were falsely claimed or just playing the system. Surely our countries politicians should set a better example.

If those at upper end of the average income range and are don't need the extra money do it, no wonder those on much lower incomes who find it harder to get things to make life a little more bearable with a few treats also try it on.

Is it morally any worse for someone on benefits to spend some on a satellite television, than for a well paid politician to claim £1000s for cleaning out moats in his families hereditary pile. Or buying posh duck houses?

Never mind the multinational companies avoiding tax.

Nellie neither the satellite TV nor cleaning the moat is acceptable. At both ends of the social spectrum and in the middle there are too many people just thinking 'me, me, me'.
Fraudulent expenses, fraudulent insurance claims, fraudulent benefit cheats.
I don't know the answers but I do feel contempt for them - not that they care what other people think

A good point about 'rationalisation' jane. I think we would all agree that tax fraud is much more serious than benefit fraud- and involves much much larger sums. But as whenim says, even so, BOTH need to be tackled, as fairly as possible. People constantly seem to 'excuse' benefit fraud as a counteraction of bankers bonuses and tax fraud/evasion - and people who do commit benefit fraud are constantly told that 'it's ok sort of' as it is smaller than t'other. People who do not really try to find work are told that 'it's sort of ok' because work is very hard to find ...etc.

The tragedy of British politics and society- where 2 extremes constantly 'fight' one another, instead of trying to find solutions. I am very glad I live in a country where people have to make decisions by concensus- working together, rather than the constant see-saw politics of the UK - where the vast majority of 'normal' people always get forgotten between those right/left extremes.

Thank you, jane!