Am I too 'needy', demanding and difficult?

Remember what Carol used to say in this sort of family situation? "We have every right to have opinions and no right at all to express them." True.

My son says to me sometimes: "If you push, I will pull (away). It's a simple matter of physics". Usually followed by "I need some space". And when I step back, he comes back. Push and pull.

He says it less often these days. He has trained me well

My oldest son once told me not to give unsolicited advice because he had probably already made up his mind to do it. Two years down the line when my advice proved to be true he'd just feel resentful. I'v remembered that and say nothing. My daughter-in-law once asked me if I thought she might have a bit of O.C.D my head I thought " a bit!!" But what I said was " oh I don't know what do you think" remembering my own mothers advice " see all, hear all and say bugger all" it would be wonderful if we could just let go and get on with this stage of our lives and leave em to it. Easier said than done though.

If my son threatened to pull away from me, I would give him a two finger salute and tell him to sod off.

You are all far too soft with your children. You need to find some self respect.

If only jingle I do pussyfoot around them. My M.I.L certainly has never taken this road and her children fall at her feet. To add insult to injury they all admit she was a terrible mother who abandoned them. I think they are looking for her love and approval. They'll never get it though.

I bet you wouldn't, jingl. You just think you would because you know he'll never do that.

Kiora I like your mother's advice 'see all, hear all and say beggar all'

I don't pussy foot around my children. But I have tended in the past to get too involved in their lives from time to time. And then I'm thankful that they are comfortable enough to point that out to me, and that I'm sane enough to get the message.

My philosophy, see all, hear all and say nowt. Just because they are our children does not give us the right to put in our five pennyworth.

I agree with jingl about parents having self-respect.
I can't remember now (sorry) who posted about their D getting cross when she questioned whether the D should get another dog.
I can't see why, if a D or anyone else announces that they're going to do something, a parent cannot make a reasonable remark.

The only way to enjoy an adult relationship with your children is to say as little as possible. One day it might be really necessary to give advice and if you are not in the habit of poking your nose in they will listen.

I'm in the minority here I think because I do tend to say what I think. My children are adults and don't need my approval for anything, but if I'm asked my opinion I tend to give it as honestly (and tactfully when necessary) as I can. My daughter once informed me that she had put a deposit on a puppy and asked what I thought. At that time I thought it was a completely daft idea and I said so and gave my reasons. The frost between us could have chilled a fair few drinks after I'd had my say, but the following day she telephoned to say that she was no longer getting the puppy (and she lost a substantial deposit in cancelling the purchase). Three years on she still thinks about what a disaster it would have been to get a dog at that time is remains grateful for my 'intervention'.

My DD2 asked me ages ago not to give unsolicited advice. I felt stung at first: I thought, but my advice is worthwhile -unlike that of my parents and....ah....riiiight.....I remembered how much I resented my MIL when she went round our first house, criticising and 'advising' us what to do with it - trying to re-arrange furniture etc. I still get wound up by her and she STILL does it! I have to keep reminding myself what it feels like and that, though I had hoped my children would see our 'advice' differently, that wasn't going to happen. So now we try not to offer any advice, but now and then we foul up. Part of me feels we ought to be able to offer an opinion on things, but then I just cast my mind back to MIL and that's enough to silence me. For a while! It's taken ages though. Both DDs say that when I advise them unsolicited, as it were, it feels as though I don't trust them to make the right decisions themselves, and they lose confidence. I can see this perfectly well. I've found it incredibly hard to learn to shurrup, but I'm getting there. Slowly. Not fast enough for DD2 - DD1 is far more patient and understanding! I am practising saying things like 'I'm sure you'll make the right decision for you....' of 'You'll get there!' or 'Well, you know where we are if you need us...' It'll probably take me decades to get the balance half-right!

I wouldn't dream of giving unsolicited advice to anyone.
That's different from just commenting on what's been said.
Obviously you have to be careful how you phrase things. I hope that I'm as non-judgemental when I have conversations with my DCs as I am when talking to my friends.

I find the suggestion of pussy footing with one's adult child(ren) very strange. Perhaps that is because I don't give advice – unsolicited or asked for – as a) I rarely feel qualified and b) I suspect people simply want their own decisions confirmed. Having said that, I have no problem commenting, discussing or questioning anything that is in the public domain, as it were. It seems such an odd sort of relationship between adults if one party has to edit everything they say.

absent I agree with you. My post late last night was referring to when I have in the past, when he was younger, been 'on my son's case' about something and he would tell me to back off. Of course family members sometimes get cross with each other about something that was said - as happens between all adults, related or not - and my response usually is "get over it". And people usually do. As Bags would says "Shrug".

If "the title was printed too big up so it was partly cut off", should n't they go back to the firm that they paid money to?

Did all this latest really blow up just because you pointed that out *rowantree"?

"high up" #soddingfire

On the Cut out of their Lives thread, a link was posted to a website of a psychologist who helps people who find themselves in a situation of parental alienation.
He makes the point that a couple of generations ago, children were expected to earn the love and respect of their parents. Now though, parents feel that they have to strive to earn the love and respect of their children.
Surely it should be about mutual respect - as grannyactivist has illustrated, a parent should be able to say things honestly that a child may not want to hear, and the adult child being able to listen and decide for themselves, without the parent going into dictatorial, judgemental mode, or the child going into defiant sulky mode.

My daughter and I live far apart and only see each other about three times a year, for a week. We really appreciate that time, and I wish we lived nearer to each other. But from having observed friends and reading what happens on here, I think people need more of a break from each other than they realise. When my daughter was still living at home we had quite a volatile relationship, and just occasionally I see flashes that it could reappear. Your daughter will calm down. She is stressed, thought she had done something for you that you would love, and feels hurt, just leave her alone for a bit. Time dulls all wounds.

Perhaps adult children still subconciously seek approval and praise from their mums and dads and overreact when they are critiscised in a way that they wouldn't if it was someone else giving the advice?

Is it necessarily "pussy footing" though? As parents we do not enjoy the same equal relationship with our adult children that we have with our friends and contemporaries. It may be fine to express a different opinion, but the problem arises when that opinion is given (or perceived to have) additional weight or authority because of our age/experience/relationship.
We do not necessarily know best (except in matters of child care ( but I am joking) so I think it is important to listen, give an opinion if asked for one but always to bear in mind that if they are inded making a mistake, we learn from these selfsame mistakes and our role is then to be there to support or help out not to even think "I told you so".

Good point Tegan.

Things cannot be equal if there is unequal power. Parental power can come from the culture (you should adhere to your parents wishes) or from early training (we wish) or from the fact that they have financial or actual resources (can i borrow you car mum). Grownup kids have power because they are in charge of the grandchildren and also because by this stage parents are more needy of contact with their kids than vice versa.
I do agree that some parents seem surprisingly close (by modern standards) - talking on the phone every day for instance. I'm lucky if I speak to DSs once every 3 weeks.