Rolf Harris

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That's a very difficult dilemma to deal with, isn't it? I've always felt that my children, now they are adults, might do things I don't like or approve of but they still have my unconditional love and if they had a serious problem I would want to be there to support them whilst they dealt with it. No excuses, and I would probably be their harshest critic for quite some time. I certainly wouldn't condone or collude with them in avoiding the consequences of their actions, and wouldn't excuse any pleas to lighten up and promote contact with children if they presented the slightest risk. Safe for me to say, I suppose, because I'm not in that position. If it was my husband (haven't got one now) I would not be anything like as forgiving. I can't express how angry and vengeful I would feel - I don't know how I would stay rational!

I'm in agreement with one or two others on here who have said, or implied, that very few people are completely wicked.
Rolf Harris had a very pleasant social side to him, which could have been all false, or natural.
Some men who have been sexual predators have worked on themselves, with help, and reformed, but rarely are they given a chance to live in the outside world again. Saw this on an American TV programme about a specialist prison for sex offenders.

Well, I could not still love the person, as he would not be the same person that I thought I knew and loved. He would have been maintaining a pretence, so you would have been loving a sham, an illusion, not the true character which was something else altogether.

That is right, Gill57. Age should not be a consideration in sentencing.
Rowantree, your daughter is a very brave girl; she did the right thing but so often the victims are not offered the support and understanding that the perpetrators are. It is good that she has you to support and help her.

You can still love the person but not the deeds.I don't think his age should be a consideration, whatever sentence he gets he will only serve half of it.

Rowan how insensitive to phone your daughter to say he had support! Sounds like someone who didn't understand the victim support worker responsibilities they had taken on. Their job was to inform the family of imminent release and find out if there were any concerns that could reasonable be addressed, like ensuring he stayed out of their way.

as he did not take into account the age of his victims, he cannot expect the judiciary to take into account his age when passing sentence.

I do know of someone [friend of a friend] that was accused of a rape; they were not guilty but the stigma never went away.

Well, we don't know what happened to him afterwards, except that the probation services saw fit to phone DD2 and let her know that he was going to be released and that he had support and housing and was getting help. She didn't want to know that! In contrast, her compensation, when it eventually came, was halved because she had an existing mental health condition (though, as she said, no amount of compensation would wipe out what had happened to her). We were gobsmacked when we knew.
And yes, whenim, she did have gumption. I don't know how she found the courage. She very nearly gave up when the court case was postponed at the last minute - but in the end she kept going till the end.

suebailey - I have some sympathy with this - I recall Shakey's words: 'Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds....' though I have the feeling that Shakey didn't have sex offenders in mind when he wrote this...

However repulsive the crime, they are still somebody's son. Or husband, father, brother, grandfather or friend. Very challenging to deal with.

The other nagging thought in my mind is....and I know that in this case the evidence is pretty damning, but juries have sometimes got it wrong in other high-profile cases. I think the key phrase is 'beyond reasonable doubt' and that isn't always necessarily obvious.

Very sad and very insightful Rowan

Rowan thanks for sharing that - I do think it's helpful to have an 'inside view' of the process and its aftermath.

Your DD must have some gumption to have endured all that, Rowan. It's been said a few times on Gransnet that police have walked away from court in tears after seeing a case like yours through and getting a trivial sentence. Sex offenders need at least three years inside to go right through a full treatment programme, with a decent period of probation supervision after to ensure any treatment needs that were unmet can be imposed. Derisory sentences like that really don't help, and when they're borderline in length, a hefty probation order with tight restrictions, living in probation premises and attending intensive treatment programmes are better. Sex offenders frequently complain that they would prefer prison because probation officers, social workers and psychologists 'get in their heads.'

It would be beyond my limits, but I would n't go on any social media with it. Not nice.

I haven't read every word of this this thread but what I would like to say is what saddened me was how quickly former associates, and friends disassociated themselves with him and wanted to go on public record as quickly as possible. If we love someone as a friend does this stop if they do wrong- can we still love someone like this? The answer for me is yes. A friend in need is a friend indeed.

DD2 was sexually assaulted by someone who had previous as a child molester and was known to the police. He then turned his attentions to vulnerable young people, such as DD2's then boyfriend who was disabled, in order, I assume, to meet vulnerable young women. DD2 was in the wrong place at the wrong time (our house, believe it or not) and this person was acting as her boyfriend's carer (they knew nothing of his past because he lied about it). He was staying overnight with her, her BF and another friend, and took advantage of DD2 being badly affected by a combination of weed, alcohol and antidepressants. She couldn't escape from his attentions until one of the others noticed what he was doing and stopped it going any further. DD2 blamed herself, and wasn't going to report it until she discovered he had a record. She then decided that she had a duty to report it, to protect others, and endured 2 years of hell with interviews, investigations, postponment of the court case a couple of times and finally the court case itself. All that whilst suffering anxiety and depression and a painful health condition. We had to give evidence in court too (we were away from home when the attack took place but had to be character witnesses for our own daughter!) and it was one of the worst times of our lives. DD2's intimate and personal details were discussed for all to criticise and debase, and she collapsed twice in the witness box.
Eventually he was found guilty on one of the two counts, but the jury weren't unanimous. He got a custodial sentence, but that was immediately halved, so he didn't actually spend that long inside. I still wonder what on earth was in the minds of some of the jury when they didn't find him guilty on both counts, but we will never know.
I'm in no doubt that being in prison didn't do much apart from a) give DD2 a little justice - not much, but at least she didn't feel she'd gone through pursuing the case for nothing) and b) keep him off the streets for 18 months - but after that, who knows? You can't 'cure' sex offenders, of course-no one pretends you can, but how long can you keep them in prison to protect the public, and at what stage can it be decided they are no longer a danger? Not easy to answer either question.

For sure he won't escape a custodial sentence but the question is how long?

I can't work out where I stand on the issue of a long prison sentence for an 84 year old man. If he was a nazi war criminal I'd say 'let him rot in jail' without a second thought.

His life, as he knew it, is over anyway. He'll be shunned wherever he goes.

Sorry - bit of a technical hitch here!

We can all feel sorry for an old man; and especially for his wife in this situation. But he committed crimes for which he must pay the penalty. How else can the justice system function? - or others inclined to do the same get the message that they will pay the price for their actions? It has to be.

We can all feel sorry for an old man; and especially for his wife in this situation. But he committed crimes for which he must pay the penalty. How else can the justice system function? - or others inclined to do the same get the message that they will pay the price for their actions? It has to be.

You do the crime, you do the time.

He has had a good run without being charged. If he had done the time as soon as he had done the deeds, he could have had the good years afterwards, though they would not have been quite so good without the fame and the money. As it is he had the very good years first, and will now have the prison years.

When I did not see the idiot child's remarks about you, or I would have included you with PapaOscar.

Everything he'll be stripped of are things he got from the fame which he then used for evil purposes. If he was someone who had committed the same offences but was penniless and living in a hostel no one would say 'poor man, we won't sent him to prison because he hasn't got anything'.

Welcome, nonnie. There are many elderly sex offenders in prison. They are catered for with accommodation, health access and their mobility, and they are risk assessed - it would shock you to learn how many are still high risk to children. The judge will take mitigating facts about age, health, attitude and risk into account and I expect he will explain his reasoning carefully, in the event of an appeal.

I think it will be a shame if normal loving grandfathers are affected as papaoscar suggests.

As I think I have mentioned before my brother's relationship with his grand-daughter has changed because of other peoples comments. His daughter is a single parent and his grand-daughter used to sit on his bed with him and have heart to heart talks, but someone pointed out that if she told teachers she did that, it could be misconstrued so now they have their little heart to hearts sitting on a bench in the garden. I just feel that is so sad

I've come to this late (as usual) but would just like to agree with granjura.

And could someone please pm me if I'm in danger of missing anything else.

I can imagine what was said and applaud those of you who retaliated so well!