Rolf Harris

GillT57's comment reflects my own feelings on reading this thread. Enjoyable seems the wrong word, given the subject under discussion and the personal information shared by many. But, it reminds me why I enjoy GN so much.
Rosequartz reference to the Nature/Nurture issue in relation to personality development is so interesting (for me anyway!). Many people have tough times in childhood, not all of them go on to abuse others. What is it that enables the majority of us to put the brakes on our less likeable qualities, whilst others seem to develop those characteristics. It seems RH did have some odd childhood experiences, but my own belief is he made choices throughout his life. Those choices are catching up with him now.

I feel for his daughter. Did she have an inkling her father was sexually attracted to her friend as the girls hit their teens. Nauseating isn't it.

I agree with you wholeheartedly Iam. I had a terrible abusive, neglectful childhood and it has (I think) made me more sympathetic (empathetic?) towards people who are suffering similarly. I have often read that 'abused children go on to abuse'. I'm sure this must be the case with some people but I find it hard to imagine that this is the case. Personally it has had the opposite effect on me. I can't imagine wanting to inflict physical or psychological harm on others as I know how horrendous it was. Then again we are all different.

KatyK, that comment that abused children go on to abuse is one that needs challenging whenever it's uttered. Yes, some people who have experienced abuse in its many forms go on to repeat that throughout their lives, and in all their relationships. My experience of working with children and families was that the vast majority of people are like you, they do their best not to replicate any of their own abuse experiences.

I have never understood that theory either Iam.

I am not comfortable about all these trials. They are all of 'celebrities' (i.e. presumed to be rich) and the accusations are always years old, and increasing as the attendant publicity increases. Would this happen if the accused people were not famous in any way and therefore subject to the cheap media attention?

Also, it was a different world in the years after the war. I am not talking about rape, which is a crime at any time, but the attitude then, and the culture, was that most men would 'make advances' and that it was part of growing up for a girl, to learn how to deal with this. Something now called a sexual assault could be nothing more than an unsolicited kiss, or a touch, for example.

Welcome Selina, it is a pity that you didnt take time to read the whole of this post before making your comment, for then you would see that most of the awful things that Rolf Harris did were not just merely an unsolicited kiss or a quick fumble, even though they too are unacceptable if unwanted. The jury heard details of fingers inside vaginas of very small children, do you suggest that they should just get over that? Would you tell your daughter or granddaughter to just put it behind them, it was only a bit of fun? We hear about the celebrity defendants because those are the cases reported in the press, look in any local paper, in any town and you will read of numerous cases, not rich celebrities, I dont think the accusers are after their pensions do you? It is because of the just get over it attitude that men like Harris were able to get away with what they did.

I heard on the radio that the CPS have decided not to proceed with a prosecution for having child porn on his computer! This is the first I have heard of this - was I hearing things or did anyone else hear it too?

Yes, I read that on the Sky website, sunseeker. No reason was given.

I wouldn't want Selina to be put off posting on GN.

She has a point, but I think there is a world of difference between an adult fending off the typical kind of male advances that were quite common years ago and the kind of deliberate sexual abuse that has been revealed in Operation Yewtree.

You put it better than I did aka, and I wouldnt want to put Selina off from joining in with GN.

he has just got 5 years 9 months.

Yes, I'd read when he was arrested that pornographic images of children, including infants, had been found on his computer. I've wondered why this wasn't included in the prosecution. I'm satisfied with the guilty finding, and the sentence.
I'm impressed by the Judges comments, well done you Judge

Welcome selina. Brave post. I have the same reservations.

As soon as the guilty verdict came in, victims were instructing their solicitors, according to the Guardian.

Although I understand that people are entitled to compensation, I am uncomfortable that so much money is at stake.

Elegran referring back to your earlier post, was Rolf Harris actually charged with 'fucking little children'? I didn't see that anywhere.

Sorry, you said 'fuck little children'.

He hasn't been ordered to pay compensation, although I expect victims can claim under the Criminal Injuries Compensation Scheme.

I think that only the abuse against underage children should be taken into account in these trials.

I think that all offences should be addressed, just like any other criminal.

These cases are high profile because of the celebrity of the people charged with the offences. There may seem to be more of them because of that fact, but, sadly, there are many cases going on which are not splashed across the media. Out there are a myriad of people working to bring these people to justice, to look after them in custody and to try to rehabilitate them.

Selina, I think that it is also a fact that these 'stars' were able to perpetrate some of these acts because of their fame - people admiring them, particularly very young girls, and parents wanting their children to speak to the celebrity, get their autograph, etc. No thought would have passed through the minds of most ordinary people that the jolly personae hid anything sinister or that the motives of the celebrities was to do anything other than entertain.

They did the deed and I think they should pay the price, however old the crime.

I agree jinglbellsfrocks.

Or if offences against women over the age of 16 (or 18) are taken into account, these should only attract the usual penalty, not a greater one.

If Joe Bloggs was found guilty of groping or sexual assault of an adult (male or female) I wonder what his sentence would be likely to be.

Incidentally, has anyone else heard that there is a call for an investigation into a supposed Westminster based paedophile ring?

Seems the last time it was brought up, important documents went missing!

I'm not holding my breath that anything will come of it. Too many powerful people in Westminster.

Petallus prisons are full of Joe Bloggs who got commensurate prison sentences for the same offences, many of them in their 70s and 80s, too. They just aren't as newsworthy as this sex offender.

Why, jingls? Not sure why offences against women (or men) over the age of 18 should be ignored.

How many of those people could be considered vulnerable young adults? Or, if not vulnerable, then afraid for their job, not believing what actually happened, thinking that they were the only one and/or that no-one would ever believe them if they said anything.

What's a typical sentence, when, for say, groping an adult?

I'm surprised an offence like that would even get to court.

There's no offence called groping an adult? Can you be more specific?

Grabbing a breast
placing a hand on the genitals
forcing someone to kiss against their will
penetration by a finger

That sort of thing.