bettering oneself

Ethel. Do you aspire to be a 'Hyacynth Bucket' even though she is laughed at?

Nonu, the last words of the OP were 'Any comments'. Isn't that what Soutra has been giving?

soutra surely has ,.Anno

Nonu Ethel is, of course, absolutely entitled to her own thoughts, but once your thoughts no longer remain in your head but have been aired on a public forum, it is surely reasonable that other people should be able to respond with their own views?

your thoughts have certainly made me think. I knew you would think I am a snob (maybe I am)but there are certain criteria that mark decent people out from others.

Example, a family I know and quite liked until I saw the state of their front garden, it had dirty tampons strewn amid used condoms, I once was inside their home which is quite dirty and saw the 2 children being fed from a bowl of chips on the floor from which they had to share just like animals. (my animals at least have their own bowls). Sorry I just couldn't respect them anymore and have never seen them again.

Todays standards are getting lower and while I agree that what someone does in their own home is their business, I just cant feel at ease with people who display slovenly and disgusting behaviour outside.

I also hate the attitude that the state will pay for everything, if someone cannot work for whatever reason, they manage to have the same material advantages, I see many families with cars and huge dogs to feed who are on benefits. I work and cannot afford a dog so it annoys me. There is no incentive to work these days and I wont mix with scroungers.

I can't argue with that ethelt and I hope you didn't feel anyone was expecting you to say that anti social behaviour or child neglect is fine.

Hope the garden in question was not your next door neighbour's though! or even soontobe might find it hard to " love thy neighbour as thyself" !!

No hard feelings I hope?

Don't get me wrong I will help anyone in need but I just like to think that if I help someone they will also try to help themselves. It is attitude that matters, anyone can find themselves in a bad way but it is their determination to help themselves or 'better themselves' that matters, not this, 'the state will pay' attitude.

I also know my attitude is a bit old fashioned so I will try to be more forward thinking but it is difficult, I will try to mix more with younger people and less with oldies. My friends are almost all older than me and all better off then me so maybe their attitudes have rubbed off.

Have to try harder I guess

Although I don't agree with much of what ethel says I think she is absolutely right to put forward her point of view. She does this in a thoughtful and articulate way and doesn't resort to hints, nudges and coy little asides. She introduced the topic, has taken on the different arguments which have been put forward and has said that they've given her food for thought. So a successful thread even if she hasn't persuaded others to her opinion.
Well done ethel. You introduced an interesting topic and I still don't agree with most of your philosophy but I too been prompted to think through something which, like soutra, I'd never seen ad an issue!

I am starting to get the feeling that this is really all about who has got the most money. I would be happy to be corrected but it all seems to point that way.

A real treat for DH and I is a shared bag of chips walking along the sea front on a cold winter evening. I guess that makes us animals then.

You are right, mcem. I don't agree with ethel but she has been honest and listened too - no silly asides etc. it has given me pause for thought. (And brought my mother to mind, but that is another story..)

Ethel, I am sadden that you cannot feel comfortable being you, if you have a need to speak posher to that woman she is making you feel a lesser person and you are not x

Vampirequeen said

'Yay, numberplease, my mam was a GPO telephonist and she insisted I spoke GPO English at home. I spoke 'Ull when lurkin out wi m' ma'es because it saved me from geddin me 'ed kicked in for being posh.'

Exactly what my daughter did when we moved to Lincs and she went to school there. I got such a shock when she started to bring friends home - I could barely understand her! Twelve years on and you would never know that she was once referring to friends as 'mardy old cows'!

That's the spirit, Ethel. I'll do something for you, but you have to give something back.
Do you have to form your views from everyone else? Your mixing with older people and now questioning their views and now your thinking of mixing with younger people, to what, take on their views?

janer I was always warned by DM not to be 'mardy'!

I used to say to DH 'I can't stand a mardy kid, especially when it's one of my own!'

There's posh for you!

gillybob I always feel guilty if I eat in the street - always imagining a prefect is behind me waiting to give me an order mark for eating in school uniform.
I left school over 50 years ago, it's time I got over it!

rose did you get an order mark if you were seen outside without your hat too? I still can't eat in the street but I've overcome the hat bit.

gillybob No it does not make you an animal at all. It is very special to share a bag of chips walking along the seaside front, you just enjoy it.

I've never been one to "better myself" really. I got brought up with lots of great friends, had a brother to confide in and laugh with, went to a wonderful primary school, snobbish secondary and am very down to earth and am not changing now for anyone. I hate snobbery. I can get on with anyone from a homeless person in the street (who I do go and get something to eat and drink for normally) to the surgeons in top hospitals, it makes no difference, they are all people, living and breathing and deserve respect. I treat as I am treated.

And I eat Greggs sausage rolls in public!

Without your hat, Juliette

We got an order mark if it was tilted to the back of our heads in a jaunty fashion!!

I have eaten in public, but very nervously!!

Try to eat anything on the seafront round here and you'll be sharing it all right - with the local seagulls!

Ha ha, that has happened to DH and to me - I lost my lovely crab sandwiches which I hadn't even opened, and DH lost his icecream!

They are menaces - rats with wings.

Ethel, I'm on benefits. Do you look down on me and think I shouldn't be a member of Gransnet?

I think my DD has 'bettered herself'. We live in a small, neat house in an average suburb of the city. She lives in a more rural area about 4 miles from here. Her house is in a sorry state whilst ours is always well maintained. She has troublesome neighbours and while she was here over Christmas she said to me 'I think I'd rather be living around here and that's saying something'

Ethelbags1 Running through this thread it seems there are two slightly different takes on "bettering oneself."

One is having aspirations towards better education and better jobs working enough at school to do so even if you do come from a social background that is or appears to be looks fairly poor.

The other interpretation seems to be aiming at being a social climber, trying to associate with those who are, of what that person themselves considers to be of a higher class.

There was an expression in that "higher class group" probably little used now, about not associating socially with those who are "not our sort of people".
Which in its time meant, those who considered themselves posh and of better breeding, feeling that the working poor were of a lower social class and less "well bred." Or didn't come from a "Good family" or an Old family".
That dreadful line in All things bright and beautiful.
"The rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate, God made them high and lowly and ordered their estate. Says a lot about social attitudes in 1848. It was not until the 1960s that such things began to change a bit.

Ethelbags1 from your posts it appears to me you are considering you want to be in the latter "Hyacinth Bucket" category. Am I right in thinking that?
Have you ever read Howards End by E M Forster or seen the very good film. It's all about Social snobbery in Edwardian times and the condescending way this very posh family behave towards a working class man who is trying to educate himself and indulge in cultural activities.

VQ I don't think ethel was asking that.

Unless, of course you are badly behaved (in which case you could be great fun ) #granniebehavingdisgracefully