bettering oneself

Julliette and Rosequartz, me too, still sometimes feel I'd have to eat surreptitiously or else!

I think it's something about others' standards imprinting you from an early age and perhaps finding it hard to accept that 'your/your parents'' standards are not necessarily shared by others - certainly my mother's opinions on social attitudes now sometimes seem almost bigoted and unacceptable to me. She came from a fairly poor background and desperately wanted to be 'higher up' the social ladder, and wanted us up there too.

'Bettering yourself' is, IMO, about doing the best you can, with what you have or can access, stretching yourself etc, but this isn't necessarily something everyone can do particularly if you meet widespread opposition and struggle to even manage day to day.

Social climbing is different, using others as rungs on a ladder to get something or somewhere, possibly when you might not have the abilities to achieve on your own?

I was frequently dismayed/shocked when district nursing because I had no reference point to refer from my upbringing, learned very quickly though!

#waittogetshotdown

Rosequartz. I think Ethel gave that impression Re VQs post.
Ethel. You spoke about mixing with older people. Would it be rude of me to ask how old you are. I'll be honest and put your age in the late 70s.

Nellie no Ive said I understand that some people may be on benefits through no fault of their own but its not the benefits its the attitude. As I said above, the attitude that the 'state will pay' really annoys me.
Why should hard working people be undermined by those that don't work/wont work, being able to achieve the same or better material possessions.
If someone is of low intelligence and cant work then they should have basic needs me by the state but I see all around me these people in purpose build bungalows with ever gadget available and its so unfair. I've had to strive for everything I have (mostly second hand) and I resent that.
At one time 'poor' meant poor and those that were poor were helped by others who were better off and they were grateful. Nowadys the disadvantaged are the new rich.
Example , I gave a bag of good clean baby clothes to a grandma to pass on to her daughter. The bag was thrown back at my front door, she said they did not want used stuff, none of them had a job between them. When my DD was small I would have been grateful for them and we both worked. The list is endless but It is attitude that matters. I look up to hard workers, people who have earned everything, worked hard to own a house and have nice things.

petra no need for insults. I have never insulted you either on a forum or in a pm.

I think I can see where you're coming from ethelbags
Particularly when I know someone long-term unemployed who's got a new 50" tv, the 3rd one in his house, and openly is boasting that he'd spent £2500 on his (only) daughter's Christmas presents and that people who work are idiots, he's never been better off being on the dole etc
Somehow we seem to have some people in society who expect everything to be handed over to them on a plate.........?

gillybob and the rest of you, I was not saying that to share a bag of chips was socially inferior. I said that the family I was referring to fed their kids with one bowl of chips on the floor like animals. This was not the kids fault, I was meaning that the parents were at fault and I would not like to associate with people like them. I would also not like comdoms and tampons in my garden and if someone put them their I would remove them.

Without reading the latest posts, I would say that ethel is no more than in her late 50s. Probably younger.

Did she say on another thread that she needs a certificate from the doctor because she is off work at the moment?

Ethel I think your in-laws have exacerbated the feeling of inferiority that your teacher gave you all those years ago. TAKE NO NOTICE, you are as good as anyone!

I don't like the class-ridden notion of 'bettering oneself'. From what base, to what end? I believe that the very best way of improving one's chances are by education - not elocution. My parents ensured that we made the most of the opportunities afforded to us by a good Scottish education throughout school and university. They let us know that they were proud of us. That was good enough for me.

rose I am on the sick at the minute but not receiving anything from the dwp, I get paid from my employer for up to 1 year, by which time I intend to be back to work again asap.

No, I could not be friends with people like that and I doubt that anyone on here could.

We noticed when we moved here that no-one wanted to buy (cheaply) second-hand furniture or indeed anything; the people you may think are in need could get everything they needed brand new courtesy of the tax payer.

If you offer things on Freecycle the people who come are either secondhand dealers or, to coin a phrase, very middle-class!!
Parents at a school in a rather more deprived area of the town which my DD attended turned their noses up at the suggestion of a 2nd hand uniform sale; parents I know whose children went to private school ran a very successful 50/50 scheme for second-hand uniform.

1 year is great ethel, I did get 6 months sick pay which I thought was wonderful and helped at a difficult time.

I am sure you will back and fighting fit again by then - but don't rush back too soon!

It does seem that the worst possible interpretation has been put on your posts by some, etheltbags1.

I think you made it perfectly clear that it wasn't all people 'on benefits' you had an issue with, just those who have no intention of working (and there are some!) and who seem to have little regard for their environment and/or the wellbeing of their children.

You're very lucky to have a year's sick pay from your employer - it's usually only 6 months!

(x posts, rose)

anno that is good, but many people did not have the benefit of a university education - only about 5% went to university when I was young. In my experience, most of the ones who did were 'middle-class' and would have no notion of where ethel is coming from.

I have had a mixed bag of reactions to this thread but many of you come across as being critical of my attitudes. That is ok, we all have our opinions, it would be a funny world if we were all the same but I gather from reading many of the posts that many of you gnetters are from financially secure backgrounds for which you have no doubt worked hard for. I feel that some of you may agree with me, but maybe not say out loud, that you would not mix with/look down upon people who are social misfits.
How many of you would be ok with squalid gardens like I have described, next door, how many of you would be happy with drug users/drunkards shouting at all hours in your streets. Would you be ok with them and treating them with respect the next day. I think many of you would just ignore them and think 'thank goodness I/my family are not like them.
My last word

I think there may be many on Gransnet who have never had any thoughts of 'bettering themselves' because they came from privileged backgrounds anyway.

x post

Of course they wouldn't, ethel!

oh dear I must check with my employer if it is 6 months or 1 year. Im not well paid so it might be 1 year. ?? (shock horror)
this is my very last word on this.lol

Interesting thread, ethel

Thanks!

I would hate it ethel, no question

Ethelbags1 I was not talking about the jobless on benefits.

I was talking about the expression, "bettering yourselves" and how it seems to have been interpreted on here as having two different meanings.

Getting educated and working to get a better job.

Or wanting to be posh with all the things that might imply. A better accent, influential friends, wanting to live in a big house.

I was trying to establish exactly which view you took about this position

Either of these options might be a life goal for you, but in itself it does not mean you should look down on other peoples lifestyles or that you are any better than they are. You might just have had better life chances.

Have you not heard the expression something like "walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you judge them"?

Which means that we should all remember that everyone has different experiences in their lives which shape their personality, self confidence and motivation.

So, are you, at heart, a Hyacinth Bucket wanting to up your social station, or just improve your education to boost your own confidence and get a more interesting job? Do tell.

Im a bit of both, Nellie, must have a split personality. I do love Hyacynth though, I watched her tonight and record all the episodes. I cant wait for DD to get married as she has been threatening to for a couple of years, so I can get a hat like hyacinth. lol
x

ethel!

rosequartz, on the contrary, in Scotland in my youth, it was expected that anyone, from whatever background, who had the ability should be able to go to University. Many of my contemporaries were the first generation of their family to go on to Higher Education, though I admit that my generation was the second in our family. Having said that, my great grandfather (from a tenant farming background) and grandfather, having been through the school system, were largely self-educated and reached highly respected positions in the world of journalism and authorship. I can't say that any of their descendants (so far) have hit those heights!

Is bettering oneself or being successful truly measured by what one owns? In that case I'm a total failure because I own very little and most of that came from freecycle.

However I did come from a very poor background, worked hard, got a degree from the OU whilst working and bringing up 2 children, continued to work and did a part-time PGCE and taught for several years before I became too ill to work and had to claim benefits. Was that bettering myself?

One of the nicest couples I ever knew were also the untidiest people in the world. Until I was around 14 I thought whenever we visited we were always interrupting the lady ironing. Then found out that she never put the ironing board away.

A lot of people are using Keeping Up Appearances as examples. Well I'd much rather spend time with Onslow and Daisy than with Hyacinth.