bettering oneself

I apologise if I offended you, Ethel. The reason I asked your age was because I don't know anyone, under a certain age who uses the term 'bettering oneself' or who still believes that Teachers and millionaires don't swear.

I must admit that every time I read the title of this thread, I see 'battering oneself.'

I'll tell you something that really made me think about how people - myself included - can sometimes make judgments about others, based on things that don't really matter.

About 28 years ago, when we were living in Lancashire, we were travelling down to Suffolk to visit my parents one year - I think it was at Christmas - when our car broke down near Chesterfield. My husband pulled to the side, got out and looked at the engine. A car stopped in front of us and a man of about 40-45 got out and asked if he could help. They both peered at the engine and neither of them knew what the problem was. My husband asked if the chap could give him a lift to a phone box so he could ring the AA. The chap said, I'll give you a tow back to my house and you can ring from there. You've got two children in the car and it's cold. You might have to wait a while - you can wait at ours until the AA gets there.

So, that's what we did. We met this man's wife and, from what I remember, two or three older children, and they invited us into their sitting room. It was a complete mess, totally disorganised, with clothes strewn around and used mugs and cups everywhere.

Those people were so kind and hospitable - offering us cups of tea and biscuits. We had to wait quite some time for the AA man to come but they never made us feel uncomfortable at any time.

So maybe their house was a bit scruffy and they weren't too bothered about housework but they welcomed us - four strangers - into their home and to my mind that made them decent, kind human beings. Surely that is what matters most?

I agree totally, Eloethan. It obviously didn't faze the chap when as he spoke with you - or his wife and family when you were at their house, either. It's really all about an individual's confidence, isn't it? To be happy with one's lt and not feel the need to strive to 'keep up with the Joneses' is how I see it. A bit like Mildred's sister in the sitcom George and Mildred (DH loves it - he's a bit like George, actually )! My MiL used to put on a posh accent when she boasted about the successes of one of her other sons and his family. I'm sure she had no idea she was doing it. I see us all as equal. We come into the world with nothing and we leave with nothing. It's how you treat people along the way, is what matters.

To be happy with one's lot is what I meant to type (bloomin' tiny screen on this smartphone!)

I wasn' t going to contribute any more, but I just have to say how amazed I am at the difference between Scottish and English higher education around 1960. anno you state that in Scotland anyone with ability went on to university, whereas I believe that in England only about 5% went on to university ( despite many having had a rigorous grammar school education). Many did go into further education as far as I remember.
A background of tenant farmers, journalists and authors does sound quite privileged, though, which does prove my earlier point.

(Not said with any envy or antagonism, I hasten to add, anno)

And accents again - I only realised last night that sometimes when I am reading, my brain is reading in the supposed accents of the different people in the book.
Perhaps I am just odd.

Just having a laugh to myself about bettering oneself. In my case it had to get better, it couldn't get much worse.
Two alcoholic parents. Father went to prison for GBH. Had to leave school at 14 to look after Brother (a baby) and younger sister because my Mother was in a mental home.
I suppose I did better myself because I retired at 55 with 3 mortgage free properties and money in the bank. All thanks to hard work, lots of luck, and meeting the right people.
I don't know where it comes from, but I've never felt bitter about it all. In fact i do get a lot of laughs out of it in a very twisted way.

Sometimes it's a case of mere survival isn't it, petra! You wouldn't have looked on it as bettering yourself - it was, perhaps, sink or swim! Some of us could write a book.... !!

petra well done, some people would have sunk, you are obviously a survivor!
- not for consolation but for achievement!

Rosequartz I think if a novel is well-written, the writer will catch the turns of phrase peculiar to a particular accent, and so when you read the dialogue, you hear the accent too.
One example that I can think of is Instructions for a Heatwave by Maggie O'Farrell. Most of the characters are Irish, and that shines through the actual words.
Another one is Anne Tyler. I don't think you could read her books without hearing the American accents, because she captures ordinary people's speech habits so well.

Someone upthread said they modified their accent to avoid being thought posh. I'm struggling to understand this. Some people think I'm posh, whereas others seem to delight in detecting my Stockport accent.
Is it worse to be thought posh, or not posh? I'm not sure, but one thing I am sure of is that life's just too short to worry about whether people think I'm posh or not posh, and to modify my accent accordingly

Good post Jane.

My mother was horrified (well she would be!!) when were asked how many people we were eating and I said 'Just us' in what she said was 'embarrassingly Derbyshire'.

My good friend (and hairdresser) said of someone else, 'She speaks like you - sort of posh!'

Even I can hear myself speaking with a Derbyshire accent. But that is immeasurably better than some of Leicestershire accents that can be found round here.

Maybe it's using good grammar and tenses etc rather than an accent!

Kitty recently one of my friends was describing a woman who had worked in the same office as her DH.
My friend said 'She was really posh - even posher than you!'

It is confusing, though, janea, I have just finished an American book set in the early 1900s and have now started an Australian book. Accents are buzzing around in my head.

I thought I had no discernible accent, but must admit my Midlands accent comes back when I visit up there.
I am just me (although I will admit to not liking my voice when I heard a recording of it!)

Blimey - that is posh JaneA!

I hate my voice too rose but I'm still lumbered with doing two lots of answerphone messages and my mobile phone. I draw the line at doing DH's so his is still the standard one!

The first time my husband took me back to his home, a few weeks after we met, his parents and one of his married sisters were there. When we were leaving, for him to take me to the bus stop, we were in the hall, and heard them talking, his sister said "she`s a bit posh and snobby isn`t she?", I couldn`t believe it, I thought I was as common as everybody else, and they`d been so nice to my face as well. Before we left, hubby opened the living room door and said "we`re off now, see you in a bit", you should have seen their faces!

Every day in every way I'm getting better and better

We still have DD2's message on our answerphone which confuses people as she lives in Australia!

numberplease were you using your 'telephone' voice?

At our local NT pile at Christmas we dressed as various characters from the house's past. I was a maid (all the other outfits were too small!) I was told to talk Norfolk as the maids were all local girls - so I did - and a lot of the visitors couldn't understand me! The locals loved it though and joined in with gusto causing more confusion. I thought Norfolk was quite easy to understand.

When DD went to drama school the voice coach asked where she came from as the coach could hear suggestions of a west country accent in her voice. She was born and brought up in Berkshire. This didn't surprise the coach as she said Berkshire was the most easterly county with west country sounds in its accent

When DD started work in an office in London she was called 'Poor little rich girl' because her accent was considered so posh!

Rosequartz, I may have been, without realising!

In the early 1970s I did a bit of temporary mothers help, nannying in various parts of the country.

What was really interesting was the difference I felt in different households about how the employers regarded me.

In a few I felt I was being treated with a degree of reserve which made me feel they did not think that I was their social equal. This feeling was very hard to define.

It did not seem to make any difference what sort of income, job, or new or old money my employers had.

Dear Ethelbags

The notions of a good life and behaviour that you were given are of their time.

Instead of judging people by these guidelines which would today seem to be out of date, why not be curious about how people you meet see life, what makes life worth living for them. Start to enjoy peoples unique personalities and enjoy being more yourself.

I used to work in the cafe in a theatre so we had quite a range of customers. If anybody well spoken came to the counter one of the other girls would say to me "You go and serve - it's one of the snobby people" Presumably as I could communicate with them I was automatically classed as snobby too

If I could have my life back I would happily live in a scruffy house, anywhere, wear jogging bottoms everyday with egg down the front, drink myself silly and sleep with any man that comes along and go off into the sunset to collect my benefit. Oh and I would swear like a trooper and say f... everyone. No offence to anyone, please, on gnet.
I have spent my life trying to be respectable and it has got me nowhere.

I don't think doing that would get you anywhere either, ethel but if it would make you happy you could always start doing it now.