bettering oneself

etheltbags1, I know you probably didn't mean your latest post to sound funny, but it did appeal to my sense of humour !
We are what we are. I don't think any one of us can make something different of ourselves - unless it's turning over a new leaf now and again. We can do our best - and to our own selves be true (hear endeth the lesson).

Oops - 'HERE endeth the lesson' (on my wee smartphone again) !

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb-f8CTafHs

...Marelli; did you know Count Arthur Strong is back on the telly ....?

who is Count Arthur strong ??? Is he posh

Never heard of him!

I have a lot of understanding about where you come from ethelteabags1. I think we have forgotten how class oriented our society was in the 1950s and 1960s when we were growing up. It is different these days, but those were formulative years for many of us and speaking nicely, using table napkins – and, dear Lord, using fish knives – being clean and tidy, minding our p's and q's and so on and so on were all part of the ways that our parents tried to make our futures more promising and fulfilling than their lives. My maternal grandfather was illiterate and my sister won scholarships to both Oxford and Cambridge when there were just a few women's colleges to attend. My mother, on the other hand, was a very intelligent woman who, if she had had the chance to stay on at secondary school, never mind go to university, would have been a fine historian. It must have seemed miraculous to her, although, of course, she knew how clever my sister was. Both my parents spent many hours at night school, learning a variety of things including languages – indeed they met at a German class where my mother thought my father was a real big head and disliked him intensely. The symbols and structures of a middle class life, to which my parents aspired, seemed almost unattainable to many who came from working class and poor families and there was a desperate desire, at least among some, to do exactly what ethel has talked about.

I would add that I thank my mother and father for "bettering" their own lives and making mine so easy and good.

My parents, from lowly beginnings, did everything to give my sister and me every chance to better ourselves and I am grateful to them for that.

Now my next comment should get a few responses . I had a very bad stammer and was given elocution lessons hence I have a quite pleasant accent (not posh) instead of the Brummie accent I would have had.

Having said that I love to hear all accents now including Brummie.

My mother wanted her daughters to have elocution lessons, we refused. We moved frequently but always in the north west and we children became adept at picking up the differences in accents in towns only 5 miles apart. I'd pick up the accent within days of starting a new school, but mum was determined we wouldn't be 'broad Lancashire". She firmly believed that people wouldn't realise how clever we were, if we sounded 'broad'.

It does irritate me when I hear people putting down we northerners, especially when phrases like "oooop north" are used

Elocution lessons were part of the curriculum at my state grammar school.
I think the aim was to help us to speak clearly and distinctly and to eradicate such terms as 'munna' (must not). The ultimate aim was to help us to find a job rather than teach us to sound 'posh'.

At least the elocution lessons stopped my bad stammer that I had had for about 5 years. What a relief.

ethel, Count Arthur Strong is a sit-com, and Tegan and I think it's really funny! Nothing posh about it - it's set in a café and Arthur used to be on the stage with one of the customer's fathers (played by Roy Kinnear's son - can't remember his name). I think it's on on a Thursday night?

I think those of you who have described how parents understood how important education is have hit the nail on the head.

Of course past generations tried the "better" themselves. In those days the class system held sway so people tried to understand the nuances of it to be able to "get on". Thankfully, although we are not there yet, there is so much more equality of opportunity and education is open to all who want to work at it. No more having to know whether it's napkin or serviette when you can use your education to "get on".

We are not there yet but thankfully we are a lot further forward than we were 50, 60 and certainly 70 years ago.

I do not think that getting on in life in the past was half as difficult as we like to think. My paternal grandfather was born illegitimate, Northern Irish and catholic, grew up in poverty, enlisted in the army in 1900 to fight the Boers, and ended up a commissioned officer with an OBE and a papal knighthood. His illegitimacy people were not aware of, but being Irish and catholic as well as his impoverished background didn't hold him back. He never completely lost his Irish brogue

My maternal grandmother, also Irish, grew up in poverty in slums near London Bridge, she married an Englishman, that helped. After his death in WW1, she got her daughters in to grammar school and then into teaching and nursing and managed to move to a pleasant interwars semi in a leafy suburb of south London. She was elegant, cultured and beautiful, and I adored her.

What is ambition but a wish to better oneself?

As long as we don't turn into Hyacinths in the process.

I think the lines have become a bit blurred. There's a difference between bettering oneself and bettering your situation.
I know my view of people is still the same as when I had very little.

Good point petra. That seems to be the case for most posters here, we appreciate the efforts made by our parents and grandparents to help us live a life that was a bit easier than the ones they'd had. I expect we're all doing what we can to support the next generation whilst encouraging them to be grounded, and not snotty

What is ambition but a wish to better oneself?
I wonder if it is the word "better" rosequartz. It does seem to imply that some people are "worse" which is rather judgemental. I think it does conjure up the days of elocution lessons and "gals" learning which country puts the knife and fork where, at finishing school. I might feel more comfortable with "improve" as that seems to imply education and I am sure their are other words and phrases which would not relate to class rules but to achievement while being yourself.

I wish I could stop reading this thread title as battering oneself!

Oh, thank goodness Jingle I thought it was just me! I imagine fish and chip shop batter though - not flagellation!

I was using the term 'bettering oneself' because that is what the OP is about, Gracesgran.

I take it to mean bettering one's situation through effort and hard work, whether or not one had help from parents which is what I am sure many on here have done if they are truthful.

However, being a better person comes from having a religious or moral code. I hope I have developed one and hope I am a better person as a result. I don't consider anyone is 'worse' because of what they have or have not got! And I do think some people are 'worse' because they have no regard for their fellow humans.
Better = more good and I hope I am more good than some I have heard of throughout my working life.

You could, of course, metaphorically batter oneself into being a better person.

Or you could cover yourself with so much batter that no one would be able to recognise the real you.

Very fishy!

Petra 14.56
I don"t see how that can be, when you were a child you thought differently.
I do hope someone will come up with the saying I am trying to put my finger.
IN hope .

OH crikey, I am trying to think here

"When I was a child , I spoke as a child
When I was a man, I spoke as a man

Don"t know if that is it but it sounds about right to little ole me !