ESTRANGEMENT- The silent epidemic! Let's get this out of the cupboard.

absentgrandma, my two DDD grandsons are definitely 'my boys'. They always will be. [adoration emoti]

What the????

Nobody ever said it was and right now I need that sort of inanity like the proverbial hole in the head.

Why don"t you just engage brain for one minute before clicking "post"?

You are so, so wrong JBF.Just be careful they don't shoot you down one day when your helicopter hovers too low.

As always, however, I welcome your perceptive, not to say sensitive contribution, in the spirit in which it was made.

Mm, I think another place is where the discussion should move to. Maybe I should have simply asked have you ever suffered from an estrangement however ,brief, repeated or long-term and was it your choice ? Please answer yes or no.
Isn't part of life's journey about learning to accept and live with the choices that confront you? If someone you love makes a decision that seems impossibly hurtful , we have to accept that they cannot cope and if we truly love and respect them , we have to respect their choices . People then have to decide whether they spend the rest of their days mourning and missing out on the great things life presents them with or managing the grief so that they can absorb and give back to life whatever they can . It is painful, sometimes beyond words and seeking reconciliation would be my way but for many, it is easier to shut off . Each , I'm sure, has their advantages. Still would have liked to know how many ( not the graphic details ) .��

I don't know anything about what is going on in anyone's personal. We can only respond to that which is posted on the thread.

absentgrandma, you don't understand. Of course I know they are their mum and dad's boys. But they are also my boys. And their aunty's. And their uncle's. It's a family thing. Thank the Lord.

life

I understand about what is posited, but what I object to is a load of the proverbial being deposited on my head for reasons which I fail to understand

The problem is that most people understand completely where you are coming from with 'my boys' there are those who over analyse and take umbrage.
On MN one grandmother really got it in the neck with greeting her grandson with 'How's my baby'- opinion was divided between those, like me, who thought it was a meaningless figure of speech and those who thought the poor woman should be cut off!
It really goes down to my point that it all depends on your relationship with the parents. If it is good that is fine- if it isn't you need to watch your words.

There appear to be two threads on a very similar theme, so I have copied and pasted what I have said elsewhere.

"I just feel that someone new, and distraught, might be grateful to know where to go to discuss their problems, rather than, say, an existing, long thread which could be seen as a closed shop, into which they might not feel they could intrude. It's not a question of isolating unhappy people, but being a bit sensitive to their needs and their sadness.

And those of us who are fortunate enough not to be in that position, might feel less constrained in offering our help, or even just our shoulders to lean on."

No, it's you who doesn't/want to understand JBfrocks. They are not your boys. Neither are they Aunty's or Uncle's or forty-second cousin's -three - times- removed's 'boys'. They are your grandchildren. You did not conceive them ( I hope) and you did not give birth to them. That was the pleasure and pain of their parents. From which you were excluded because it was none of your business. While women like you still cling to these suffocating ideals, family relationships will continue to be like war zones.

Well, it's funny our family relationships don't come anywhere near resembling a "war zone".

And what's with the "women like you" bit?



(I wasn't actually excluded from any of it. Except the conception. Thank God.)

In the spirit of reconciliation, could we possibly consider the real heartache and pain of a child ( whatever age) that feels her/his world is better off parent free and likewise that of the parent who has to live with their child's decision. All part of what life offers up and like being run over or hitting a jay walker ; it is not always possible to spot the moment that dealt the fatal blow. Good night friends.

It is nothing to do with what you say- it is purely to do with what your grandchild's parents interpret what you say. How they interpret it is dependent on your relationship with them- particularly if you have a DIL.

When I'm feeling sad and missing my GS I remind myself of
Kahil Gilbran's poem -*Your Children*

'Your children are not your children.They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They came through you but not from you.And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

etc.etc. look up the rest.

We only tend the roots. As a mother of six ( friend of mine) said , I did everything the same but one just decided on a self-destruct course so what can you do ?

There has been talk of how the grandparents and how the parents might feel. I have one daughter who is estranged and she has 4 children. I have another daughter who visits and I visit her. I babysit when there is a need. The singleton grandchild of this daughter has suddenly found out that I am not just his gran. I am also gran to the 4 others who he does not see much of either. He wanted me to be his gran and only his gran. My second granddaughter of my first daughter was always quite keen to ensure that we were best friends and was always giving toys on loan to me. Both of these grandchildrean are 5 and cousins to each other. We, both the parents and grandparents, really ought to think of the children and how they feel about the appearing and disappearing gran. Perhaps all these kids will start a Forum for grandkids in the middle of family domestic troubles.
Sugarpufffairy

I told my daughter Sugarpuffy that the decision to cut me out of her life was hers to live with and hers to explain to her sons when they grow older. However, I doubt she will tell them the truth and blame me. I seem to have had my name blackened where her partner is concerned when all I have done is offer him the hand of kindness seeing as he has no mother of his own since she died when he was 12 years old.

But like you said, it is the children who are missing out and we are not doing that to them, their parents are. Poor loves.

for you.

I love that Kahil Gilbran poem on children and it had sprung to my mind on this thread before being mentioned by Maniac. I think all parents should get a copy at birth!

A lot of the problems come from all this my -as if the child is a possession.
They are a gift that you are privileged to nurture for a while (a very short while when you look back) - parents included.
They are their own people.
Parenting is the one job where you aim to make yourself redundant - in a very gradual way- you give them roots and give them wings. Hopefully they want to come back from time to time to be with you.

Those who have problems are all the my child ,my rules ones- who have set ideas of what their child should think, career path, friends etc etc and never let go so that they are very much my grandchild- with the same pattern.

I think that the child takes in so much of what isn't said- they do as you do, and never as you say. Therefore if you have been laid back with the 'it takes a village to raise a child' mentality with open house, both sets of grandparents welcome visitors and well liked, they see it as the norm.
If you have seen grandparents as a problem and resented time seeing them - then that will be your norm as you become grandparents yourselves.

There are exceptions. I have two lovely friends cut off from their grandchildren. One has a DIL who has divorced her son and at the moment even he is having to fight for contact and the other has a daughter with mental health problems.

It isn't a simple problem- there are as many reasons as people!
Not something you can legislate for.
The most you can have is a support group.

I think everyone feels extra protective and extra loving to the children that come directly from your family roots. The "my boys" in my case has nothing whatsoever to do with ownership. It's a belonging in a quite different sense of the word.

Yes, of course I've come across the poem quoted here, and the stuff about children being only lent to you, etc etc. but nothing, surely, could ever stop you feeling that your children, and your grandchildren, are, and will always be, a part of you.

It probably just comes down to the shared genetics things, but I like to believe in love.

I think that whatever has gone on between adult members of a family, withdrawal of grandchildren should not be used as a punishment. It is unfair and cruel all round.

Jingle at last, your the first one to mention the word 'Love' forget everything else, it's all about loving a person, adult or child.
I loved my D&GC with all of my heart & soul & I actually liked her husband till he cut me out. I was very careful from the start to know my place & respect them as the parent & not to ever interfere. I guided my three children whilst they grow up but always respect whatever choices they made, unless it was a hermful one of course.
So the bottom line here is; what about that one little word 'Love'

But some people feel they are protecting their children. All cases are different and you really can't tell from one side of the story.

Yes. Obviously if a granny really was (heaven forbid) a "toxic" person, then there might be a justifiable cause for keeping the children away. But we are all fallible, and family life will sometimes go askew, and then things like divorce between the grandparents, and family arguments, however deeply felt by the grown-ups, should not be visited on the children. They are separate from all that.