ESTRANGEMENT- The silent epidemic! Let's get this out of the cupboard.

otw. Do you want a topic where all this can be discussed?
Did you come on to gransnet to get a headcount of exactly how many posters on this forum have this problem? And if you did, how does that help? Are you saying that you think that the problem is much more widespread than you thought, and you would like some sort of confirmation of that?
Do you know think that your subject, to be done analylitically[sp], needs to be done through a uni or similar?
Do you want to really say more about your own situation?

What a wonderful thread ; there is nothing like acceptance of minor differences in fact celebration of differences with a shared unity of love and caring . It's reconciliation and celebration that our lives should work towards .:-)

Relooking at your post of 17.22pm last night, I think that you should start another thread, headed and written just the way that you have there.
I think the thread will then go in a completely different way.

I've been reading this thread and wasn't going to post but having read your contribution Jingle I couldn't resist. It is as you say cruel and unfair to remove grand children from their grand parents lives to punish those grand parents. It's also cruel and unfair to the grand children.

Unless parents firmly believe that their children are at risk, physically and/or emotionally there is no justification. There have been several references to the fact that we don't own our children, that they are not possessions. This is true of course and equally applies to our children's children.

For what ever reason, some adult children decide they don't want their parents to be a part of their lives any more, but what moral right do they have to make that decision for their own children.

Good to see you've posted here Yogagirl.

Considering the state doesnt intervene that much when parents neglect their children, I personally think that there is no hope in the state intervening on behalf of grandparents.

Soon to be , I have explained my situation on GN and yes having read in many newspapers about the growing silent epidemic , I thought a thread to quantify the scale of the Robles might be useful . That is it !

I dont have grandchildren - yet.
But what I have realised from being on this forum, is that if I do, there is almost nothing I can do if one of my children were to decide to cut grandparents off.
So I would need to act very carefully in the first place.
But when all said and done, if it were to happen, I am going to have to accept it.
And hopefully, at least know where they are living. So that eventually, when the child is 18 or whatever, that they can trace us if they want to.

Ah Otw. I think that you have got more than you bargained for on this thread.!

Soontobe, if we have reached just one grandparent to be, it will have been a worthwhile thread .Seriously so many valid points on here. I never believed that I owned my children, they are part of us physically for just nine months then we begin the journey of pruning the supports until we hope they can stand unaided. A little awareness goes a long way. Please let me have you thoughts on how this thread should move forward? Has anyone read or seen positive articles on how grandparent /grandchild relationships affect life paths? Thank you

Crumbs. That might be asking a bit much of me!
It doesnt help that I missed the thread for a couple of days. Plus I dont have grandkids, plus I have only been on the forum for four months so am a definite newbie.

The only thing that I can think of right now to positively add, is to speak to people who are going through much the same thing. Which is really why I suggested that you start another thread.

I think that the thread moves forward as mutual support and it shouldn't be on AIBU.
However, it isn't something you can legislate for. If I had decided to cut off my first husband's parents,once he was dead,there was nothing they could do. I wouldn't do that, they had a central part when I remarried and gained more grandchildren, but I can't see what they could have done if I had moved and cut them off. Sad - but a fact.

Although I wouldn't use the apparently popular term "toxic" (see Mumsnet), there are grandparents whose attitudes towards their families and whose behaviour completely justify their being refused access to their grandchildren. Not all cut-off grandparents are victims, except of their own failings.

This is a strange thread, it is some kind of psychological study? Everything seems to be about the GCs being kept away from their grandparents. in my experience some GCs just don't like one set of grandparents, they often have favourites. I did as a child. Today 3 sets of grandparents is not unusual and there are fewer children in the family.

Too many women approach the birth of a GC as a new beginning in their lives, and it is a wonderful time but you have to be careful not to interfere with what is actually not your basic family anymore. We are now on the outside looking in.

Why not use the word "toxic" absent? Excellent description of someone you would not want round your kids, for fear of them poisoning their minds.

I think that the nice thing- very overlooked- is that children often end up with more than 2 sets. Mine had 3 sets that all treated them the same, regardless of whether they were blood relatives, and that can't fail to be really good for children.

So yes- the trend might be for more to get estranged -but an equal trend is for some to get extra.

Lovely for children to get extra grandparents and equally nice for grandparents to gain honorary grandchildren.

The term 'toxic' as applied to a human being is new to me but immediately resonates with a couple of people I know. Yes, very apposite.

Our grand child has sadly not been given the opportunity to not like us, his grand parents. He is now 3 years old and the last time we had any quality time with him was when we was just 8 months old.

He lives no more than a 4 minute walk down the road from us. Our son and his wife moved in to their current house because, according to them at the time they wanted to be near "free child care".

I didn't regard the birth of our grand child as a new beginning in my life, and none of my female relatives or friends who are grand parents regarded the births of their grand children in this way either. I don't doubt that some do, and possibly interfere but is interference fueled by over exuberance a reason to exclude them from their own child's and his/her children's lives?

I agree that when you become a grand parent you are "on the outside looking in" but sadly for some of us, we're not even aloud to look.

The behaviour and attitudes I mentioned had nothing to do with interference fuelled by over exuberance. I was thinking of grandparents, usually grandmothers, who regard themselves as the single most important person in a grandchild's life, who criticise parents, usually mummy, to the child, deliberately treat the child in ways that are contrary to the family's usual practice in matters such as snacks, discipline, bedtimes, potty training, etc. and, knowingly or not, set out to disrupt the family dynamic. I know of one grandmother who repeatedly told her grandchild that mummy didn't really love him and that the only person who did was herself, desperately confusing a young child who loved both his mummy and grandmother. The result was behavioural problems, much distress in the family and an isolated grandmother. Perhaps the word toxic is appropriate.

The adult children can be toxic too you know, jinglebellsfrocks. Just before christmas one of my adult children and her husband told me I was boring and to go and get some heroin. Then they went on to talk about how it would need to be Glutten free because I have Ceoliacs Disease and went on to discuss the results if I dont have glutten free foods in graphic detail. All this in the presence of two of my grandchildren, one is at school and what if she repeats what she heard. My ex husband was there too. It is not normally a problem to be in a house at the same time as the ex but I certainly did not want bathroom issues discussed in front of the ex or the son in law. This was the end. I have been hit and scarred by a burn, I have been accused of running Social Work and the Police. I am alright to borrow money from that does not always get repaid. I am alright to be called out at all hours of the night, put in danger and petrified by the drunkeness.
The time comes when as much as I wanted to see my grandchildren and I think they wanted me in their wee lives I just cant take any more of the nasty talk or risk the physical and emotional assaults.
Sugarpufffairy

I think for the behavior you've just described absent toxic is indeed appropriate. Clearly this was not a case of interference fueled by over exuberance, but if it is the latter and not the former,is cutting out the grand parents valid?

Our posts crossed Sugarpufffairy; there can be no doubt that your experience is due to the toxic behavior of adult children.

I just came across this pamphlet from the Scottish Government (I expect England/Wales will have a similar version) which does not set out the 'rights' of Grandparents to be given consideration in Family Law disputes, but rather focusses on the Rights of children to maintain contact with members of their wider family.

www.gov.scot/Publications/2006/04/21143655/0

Otw

In some, the grandmothers are not acting appropriately.
In some the mothers are not acting appropriately.
In some, the mothers are being a bit controlled by their partner.
In some, the son is being a bit controlled by the dil or partner.
In some, there may be a bit of mental illness.
In some, drugs or alchohol may be helping to fuel problems.
In some, there may be over exuberance by a grandparent.
In some, there may not be sorrys being said.
In some, there may be grudges held, and not much forgiveness.

I have noticed something which I havent said before.
Sometimes, when a young person[or it could be older as well for all I know] moves away, through their own choice, they may be happy. But it does sometimes make them feel a bit insecure. They can need constant reassurance for a while, even months, that their parents still love them the same, and miss them, and are still thinking of them the same.
I have seen this happen a couple of times, to people who were feeling quite secure before they left.
They can feel secure again, but they do seem to have a bit of a wobble. They feel left out I guess, even though they are not.