ESTRANGEMENT- The silent epidemic! Let's get this out of the cupboard.

Bit uncalled for jings. She sounds like she really supported the continuation of her children's relationships with their grandparents very well. Give her a break!!

An earlier poster mentioned that her MIL is 'toxic' and 'narcissistic'. I don't know whether or not the narcissism has been diagnosed or is just used as a term which could describe her.
One of our DC has problems with a MIL (and FIL) who would fit that description but she has never been prevented by our DC from seeing the DGC.

Grammar error - MIL has never been prevented from seeing the DGC

I do adore my grandchildren but it is my daughter that I miss more than anything else. I thought she was a brilliant Mum , and we had , what I thought was a caring relationship but clearly she was just keeping up appearances . My granddaughter is adorable as is my grandson but she suddenly declared that she didn't want any sort of relationship with us and have heard nothing since . Faye , most people would think it cruel but the last time this happened , she repeatedly told me that my GD forgot ME as soon as I walked out if the room . Over her lifetime she has cut me out of her life at least a dozen times and each time it hurt but this time , I have come to realise that my memories of her are not genuine . She must find it particularly hard to connect with me which is heartbreaking as we were ( until she was in her late teens very very close . I'm not going to waste my days living in despair a want to raise awareness for all sides concerned .

I am totally perplexed as to why I should have a 'forced' visit to Gransnet- how could anyone force me?
Of course I can understand how you feel about grandchildren.

I am only stating one fact- not a pleasant one- but a fact. You can't have a good relationship with grandchildren if you are estranged from the parent.

A court order for your 'rights' won't give it. e.g. If I thought my parents were so toxic that I cut contact, and it was generally so poor that we couldn't resolve it, even with mediation, then a court order wouldn't give a good relationship. For example it would have to be at my house, under my supervision, or at a centre with a neutral third party supervising. There would be no unsupervised visits, trips out, school plays etc. and it would be the bare minimum.

There is NO possibility of me ever doing this, I hasten to add. I am just trying to point out that giving grandparents their 'rights' won't make for a good relationship.

I firmly believe that children benefit from grandparents, that some get cut off through no fault of their own. You appear to be shooting the messenger because you don't like the message!

I wish someone could explain how you hope to legislate to give grandparents rights if the parent is forced to comply. Or rather how you hope to get a normal, loving, involved relationship from it.

Otw sorry for your pain
I know how those words hurt, being told your beloved GD doesn't know who you are and that you don't know them, their likes & favourites etc. The judge in the court read these words to me from the statement, wait for it...written by his mother!
A more cruel women you could never meet and no relation to my precious GD. I really don't know how all their lies & deceit were permissible in court, but they were!
And yes like you Otw I feel I must have a false memory about how close & loving a relationship my D &I had together, especially when she & my GD lived with me (before he came along)

Leticia I can see what you are saying is right, now, but back when this first started for me, I didn't, as I didn't have all the knowledge of this estrangement situation then, I really wish I had have, as I would never have gone down that road. hindsight is a wonderful thing!
And I must say, how you have treated your previous in-laws is exemplary I hope they realise what a wonderful d.I.l they have. God bless you xx

I wish that I could mend relationships between adults- it doesn't matter how wise you are, sometimes it is impossible. Unfortunately there are no magic wands! Yogagirl is in a heartbreaking situation- it would be lovely to have a solution.

I suspect Yogagirl that any route you had taken would have failed. You can only hope for change in the long term.
There is always hope.

I dont think that they are false memories - I could be wrong.
I think people change.
And they meet people and change.
May be it didnt happen so much in past generations, as children largely settled down in the same areas that they were brought up in. And carried on mixing with the same people as when they were kids.

I can see why you wonder if the memories of the relationship you used to have with your ED are 'false' Yogagirl, I sometimes wonder that too. How could the S I loved so much and believed loved me in return, be so cruel, so unlike the person he used to be, or may be he never was that person and like Otw says of her D, was just keeping up appearances. Goodnesscould he have done that for 27 years?

No, not possible but then again I never thought this situation would be possible either. Sometimes hindsight can be a wonderful thing as you say Yogagirl but it can also be a curse.

I agree soontobe that people change but when they become completely different you can't help but wonder if that's what they were like all along and you just couldn't see it, even when it's your own child.

for you Otw

I cannot see how anyone can be sure that the system they have in place in Australia wouldn't work here. It sounds an excellent way of handling things - firstly family mediation only followed by Court ruling if that fails. It seems we don't even have the mediation bit available here.

I think in the very sad case of a father dying, it would be easy to maintain good relations with the grandparents. That is something quite different to cases where acrimonious family break-ups have occurred.

Sorry about the confusion re 'forced' Letitcia. I was referring to the time, a little while back when Mumsnet went offline for some reason and the Mnetters were directed over to here. I did not express myself well. And, of course, there is no reason why you shouldn't be on a forum for grandparents, even if you aren't one.

Having known a lot of widows it is very common for relationships with the ILs to break down or just fade out.
Mediation is the best option. I just fail to see how a court ruling helps- it is hardly as if it suddenly gets everyone playing happy families with the normality of grandparent role.
I had no idea that MN went offline- I go on that periodically ,but am a bit old.

I'm a mother not a GM so sorry I've posted on here before for advice, I haven't cut my IL's out but I've significantly reduced contact to 2-3 days every 6 weeks and cut down the skype calls. I'm surprised she isn't on here complaining, the fact is we feel GM doesn't respect us as parents she still see's us as children when we are 22 and 27 and wishes to co-parent. My DH was not a very good father while we lived under her roof and I developed pnd because she would try to take over everything and BE the parent she wouldnt allow my dh to parent in his own way. She doesn't have a good marriage is lonely, her life revolves around her children and now my DD she has asked for her stay with her permanently as me and DH should get to live our young carefree lives.

She uses dd to heal that lonely feeling, we moved 120 miles away and she's looking at buying a house here I know she just wants to be near dd but it isn't healthy for her or dd she will come round daily and want to be near her as DD is her only focus. DD will soon develop her own interests and hobbies and not wish to be around us and her grandmother all the time. I feel she uses dd as a bandaid and an emotional crutch she loves her but it borders on obsession she only ever talks about DD I mean for the 7 months i lived under her roof thats all she would talk about and when I see her now , I think MIL should get some new hobbies and interests. My own parents see dd for roughly 1 hour per week and they generally want to spend time with me and DH not just DD.

I think that is the problem veexox- you seem very reasonable and yet should your MIL post you would be quite different from her point of view.
Impossible to legislate on 'rights'.

I think that your last sentence has a lot to do with the problem and if the grandparent wants to spend time with the grandchild and not the grand child's parent then you will have problems.

Jingle there is mediation here in the UK. I went, it was tremendously helpful & the councillor was fantastic and so kind to me. After my meeting my D&s.I.l were invited to attend, needless to say they didn't, after that the case is automatically forwarded to the courts, of course you can stop it there and as I've said before, I wish I had & not gone to court. I went three time but didn't actually get to the main court hearing as I wasn't given permission. The mediation is expensive, as I would have had to pay for theirs as well as mine. The councillor was so good and I know my D would have been up for it but of course my s.I.l was not. I think the councillor could possible have solved the problem and lifted the fog from my D brain

Oh God. When I read the posts on here by from mothers of the children, I absolutely despair.

veexox for you mum-in-law

your

I think I'm an odd bod on here because when my DDs want me to have their children it's actually the DDs who I long to see. I love my GCs because I'm genetically programmed to do so and because they are loveable but it means I also get to see the DDs for an hour or two . I crave the DDs company far more than the GCs.

Stansgran - I'm the same. I can't seem to get my DD to understand that I would love to sit with her, just the two of us, and have a chat or a lunch out or something. It never happens. I have said to her in the past that just because I have become a grandmother doesn't mean to say I am no longer a mother. She doesn't get it which is a shame. I do see her frequently but rarely just the two of us.

Jingl why do you despair? Me and DH are a family unit with DD MIL still sees dd regularly for 2-3 days per month-6 weeks and has had her overnight skype calls twice a week she spends more time with her than my own parents. She wants to see her daily/contact on skype daily even though me and my DH have other things to do, like working, preparing dinner, cleaning the house, bathing, bedtime routine. She loves DD and dd loves her but we have to be allowed to be parents which doesn't happen when she is around.

I think a grandma should not be expecting a daily Skype - she should remember that she's not the baby's mother!

It's unreasonable not to be happy with monthly visits.

I think grandparents should have the legal right to see their grandchildren although I see problems with this in really stoking up resentment.

Also, I think it is terrible the way children are used as a weapon.