to think Government should say how it will save £12billion on welfare?

I think, Elegran, that you will find this is a political thread that you have just posted on!

https://clivepeedellnha.wordpress.com/2015/04/02/how-the-nhs-is-being-privatised/

A very interesting interview with Clive Peedell of the NHA party. For those who think that the NHA is a single issue party.
But I would say that, wouldn't I?

I get irritated by the labelling of anyone with left wing views as a Lwbour supporter. DJ frequently points this out. I'm pretty left of centre (.I know this is somewhat of a shock) and have voted Labour in the past but in recent years ( last 10 or so) have usually voted LibDem at local level - because they really do get things done and there's no Laboyr base here anyway. At General elections , although my vote is worth nothing in a rock solid seat, I have voted Green in the last two. I could write a book on what was wrong with New Labour and since and absolutely agree that the seeds of many policies I disagree with with this a government were planted by TB such as zero hour contracts, academies, role of private sector in NHS etc. But I could write several books on what is wrong with the Conservatives. I'm just really an unrestricted old style leftie and I'm not going to chsnge now. . I know the sort of world I would like will never happen but am sad at the increasingly divisive nature of our society and the, 'race to the bottom' mentality of so much debate and the lack of compassion and proportion in response to media driven shock horror stories. The whole NS story is a microcosm of what is wrong - in fact I was getting so fed up of the EM bashing based on his looks etc that I was considering voting for him but after the Labour Perty response to the memo, I hit that on the head. Aren't we all tired of discussions of EM's looks, NS's hair etc? I also agree that it is probably more likely that those GNs with left wing views come into the debates robustly - maybe it's because we feel it more strongly - I don't know bu also with me I'm so often irritated by the level of debate in the mostly right wing media that i need to put the other side strongly on here. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that - I do think that if we want to debate politics we should all be prepared to be robust and defend our position - POGs and DJ are good examples of that and I respect them for fighting their respective corners. Those of you who find it all a bit too much are IMO bring a bit wimpish

Not unrestricted - I meant unreconstituted - not that it matters

Very interesting to read all the comments re cutbacks in the NHS. I got the opposite impression when i posted about that not so long ago! Interesting also to read that the current gov has lumped pensions and benefits into the welfare category. That tells me the cuts will be across the board. Everyone who pays taxes has contributed to the social/health/educational/etc etc infrastructures. We have different needs at different times in our lives. Those who are lucky {altho they may not think it's due to luck}enuf not to use whatever service, are never the less benefitting from the stable society that these infrastructures maintain.

I just feel frightened that there may be millions of other voters like soon who will give a degree of power to UKIP for no sound reasons other than not really being able to decide who to vote for - not good.

I think that there are a lot like me Mishap.
I have found that when results are analyzed after elections, and especially if it is a bit of a surprise, that they will find that voters will say they voted fro a party or didnt vote for a party for the same reasons I was thinking.

Anniebach - no I dont think so?
I think they are a bit new really. Have some different ideas?
I really dont want same old same old.
Trouble is, I am not sure what you get with UKIP. As I have probably said before elsewhere, I think he is making it up somewhat as he goes along.
I also have some uneasiness that he is not very in control of his party?
But he does seem, at least to me, to be strict on those who go way too far.

I could go and spoil a paper, but not sure where that gets me. I need to think about that one.

I am getting away from the op. So I will take Ana's advice of shutting up!

I am a socialist , I didn't like some of Blairs policies but still voted labour, I will vote again for labour, quite simply because they will do far less harm to the most vulnerable in society. UKIP terrifies me, I could never trust the Libs , a vote for the greens is a wasted vote in my opinion, and I have no doubt at all the Tories will always put the wealthy first . I so wish we didn't have such a right wing press in this country , they got Thatcher in and are going all out to get Cammeron in . For me, my vote is not for self but for the vulnerable

Sadly, in our constituency, rock-solid Tory, any other vote is wasted. But I will cast mine. Always left of centre, young Liberal; later - Labour voter, then found that the SDP was in tune with my opinions; founder member of Lib Dems and now, out of love with the party I served, I am politically homeless. One thing I shall never be - right wing. UKIP is scary, the Tories only slightly less so, with the emphasis on cutting 'welfare'.

Hopefully, Mishap, there are more like us who vote with their consciences than vote for a party because they think they are wrongly in the middle of the road.
The only middle of the road party, soon, is Lib Dem. I notice they do not get a mention. Why not? Nick Clegg said he was quite happy to veer left or right in the debate.
Farage might even lose the seat in the election, soon. At the last count he was coming third behind Labour and the Tories. So you shouldn't vote for a party because you like the man at the top. The reason you cannot find out what they stand for is because they keep changing their minds.

If you want a "protest" vote, the greens are a safer bet. First do no harm and all that.

At the risk of offending anyone, I cannot see how anyone can take UKIP seriously - they chop and change their policies every 5 minutes. The only two discernible policies are to stop immigration (but they do not know how or what the adverse effects might be- it is just pandering to xenophobia) and to get out of the EU (but no statement about how that might affect business etc.). It is just stuff from the back of an envelope.

You do not offend me [cant speak for anyone else]. I do think it may be back of the envelope stuff.
Not sure I like Farage. Not sure[I am aware I am sounding vague, as I feel vague about it].
But I do like the idea of new. But with new comes the element of danger which I dont like.

dj - lib dems are too liberal for my taste. I am not really a liberal sort of person.
I have always wondered about them. But once, may be just before the last election, a presenter was interviewing a labour, tory and liberal. And the liberal man said "well that is what we are, liberal". I think[could be wrong] that being liberal is not really just a party but a state of being as well.
In years gone by, I did think that they were in the middle. Perhaps they were. But now I think they are left field somewhere.
But then they went with the tories, so I suspect that they somewhat blow with the prevailing wind.

I am not sure it is blowing with the prevailing wind, but recognising the political realities - they had little choice but to join with the Tories in the hope that they could temper their right wing excesses. The alternative was to have no political influence (which would have been counter to the voters' expressed wishes). I think they made the right decision. What went wrong was that they failed in that aim and allowed themselves to be browbeaten rather than holding the Tories to ransom as in some instances they should have done. I do not think that, in the event of a similar coalition being formed they would make the same mistake again.

I agree, Mishap. But I cannot see the Libdems forming a coalition with Cameron again.
Soon, Ukip can in no way be considered middle of the road. They are to the right of the Tories, the Enoch Powells of politics.
Vote green if you do not want to spoil your vote. If as you say you have to vote because of your conscience, not with your conscience, the green vote will do the least harm.

Here's an interesting chart for you, soon, to see where your politics lie.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2015

Mamacaz What politicians are extremely good at is tels of lies so that people will vote for them then not doing any of the things they said they would

Having a vote may make you feel that you are in some kind of control, however the only very small control one has is to decide Which liar we can put up with.

This Government in particular has let us all down so badly and boldly originally refused to be asked any questions before election, he caved in eventually but what reason would he have not to want to be asked questions pre election??

I am sorry to say I have no faith in politicians and further more it seems to me that a conservative government dis like poor people eg welfare has been drastically cut by the conservatives to the extent that we have food banks popping up all over the place and child poverty has risen to an alarming rate. And benefit sanctions are the every day norm and claimants have actually lost their lives due to the sanctions On the news a claimant that was diabetic was sanctioned and due to not being able to buy food lost his life!! If I were the politician responsible for that ruling I would feel extremely responsible for that persons lost of life.

One last thing about Conservative politicians. What do the know about The Real World. They make decisions regarding poor people, something they know nothing about. It would be a bit like me walking into a Hospital and trying to cure cancer, I could not do it, simply because I know nothing about how the cancer grows etc.

No, we are at their mercy and in their in capable hands

Do you realise you are asking Iain Duncan Smith to have human attributes and feelings, Parcs?

We can never feel that as voters we are in control, until we have a system of proportional representation in general and local elections. As usual, Scotland is, in that respect, ahead of the game.

I have never told or advised you to shut up, soontobe. I may have asked you to 'back off' on another thread, but that's not the same thing at all.

I do so agree about PR - as long as it is possible to have more people having voted against the "successful" candidate than for, there will never be true democracy.

They are the same to me Ana.

Obviously something else I dont know about the english language in that case.

Back Off - to stop being involved in a situation, usually in order to allow other people to deal with it themselves.

If you want to interpret that as 'shut up' so be it, although I would never say that to anyone on here.

Years ago I preferred the FPP system because it nearly always gave us a government with a clear majority. Now I would really like some form of PR because as said upthread it makes people feel that their vote always counts and that must impact on the relationship that MPs have with their electorate. .

Mt MP actually lives in the village, GrannyTwice, so we feel that we have some say.
However, if the Tory boundary changes had come in, the MP for this area would have had a constituency area nearly twice as large, and with half of it cut off by snow for six months a year.
Whoever was MP would probably have to have four offices in different parts of the county.

I do not believe Ana was trying to be confrontational, just trying to put across her point.