to think Government should say how it will save £12billion on welfare?

What is your problem with Labour POGS? It is the only party that was formed to represent the rights of ordinary people. Whilst it certainly went off piste with Blair and there are, in my opinion, too many Blairite, "New Labour" types in the party, it is still far more concerned with the needs of the general population than is the Conservative Party.

If anyone is waging class warfare, I would say it is the Conservatives who have gone out of their way to reward and protect the wealthy and powerful, at the expense of the powerless.

It seems that you accept the premise that the rich and powerful should be able, in effect, to dictate to governments how much tax they are prepared to pay - even though they benefit substantially from the infrastructure and subsidies that are financed by the very tax system that they appear to despise.

Eloethan

With respect that's just a question that gives the impression I should have the same love of Labour as you do.

I speak as I find, nothing more, nothing less. I cannot please posters by being sycophantic over left wing policies and I don't think you would want nor expect me to, it's pretty narcissistic to expect all GN's to follow the same thought as ourselves and I don't put you down as that sort of poster.

Beside it would bore you silly if you didn't have at least one or two posters who didn't toe the party line, well I hope you would, maybe not?

I stand by my post re top rate of tax by the way and it is pure head over heart thinking , it is all about the numbers.

I do not "love" the Labour party POGS but I like it a good deal more than the Conservative Party whose policies I find quite despicable.

You do seem to toe the party line - the Conservative Party line.

This is the problem with attempting to discuss party politics on here - anyone who doesn't find Conservative policies 'despicable' or expresses any doubts at all about the desirability of a Labour government seems to be attacked or sneered at for daring to do so.

Every opportunity is taken to ridicule Cameron, Farage & Co. but Ed 'Two Kitchens' Miliband seems to be beyond criticism simply because he's the Labour leader.

I'm not convinced by any of the parties or their policies, but all this Conservative-bashing is probably putting more moderate voters off posting on any politics threads on GN for fear of having their heads bitten off.

Both you and POGS are quite good at Labour-bashing, ana. Why is it only the Tory bashers that put people off?

I've only ever occasionally attempted to counter criticism of the Conservative party with criticism of the Labour party because no one else (apart from POGS) seems willing or able to do so.

I think we are pretty heavily outnumbered, durhamjen, so it's unlikely anyone's going to be put off by our attempts to bring some balance into the equation.

Ana POGS said to me I cannot please posters by being sycophantic over left wing policies and I don't think you would want nor expect me to, it's pretty narcissistic to expect all GN's to follow the same thought as ourselves.

That seems fairly confrontational to me, particularly the use of the word "narcissistic" ("having an excessive interest in or admiration of oneself - and one's physical appearance") - ??!

I feel I am very above board about my left wing views and my belief that the Labour Party is preferable to the Conservatives. However, I have on several occasions criticised Labour.

I find it irritating when people who imply that they are apolitical always seem to rush to the defence of the Conservative Party when it is criticised. Your comment that "every opportunity is taken to ridicule Cameron, Farage & Co. but Ed "Two Kitchens" Miliband seems to be beyond criticism ..." - actually contains the sort of sneer of which you complain. A quick look through the politics threads will demonstrate that this type of ridicule is by no means exclusively aimed at Conservative politicians.

I can think of quite a few who criticise the Labour party. You know who you are. But as Eloethan says, they usually imply they are apolitical.
Is that because they do not want to admit to being Conservative?

Eloethan

You asked me a direct question, I gave you a reply, you respond by giving a reply that accuses me of being confrontational and you quote part of my post but conveniently leave out a part that puts my comment into context.

I said :-

"I speak as I find, nothing more, nothing less. I cannot please posters by being sycophantic over left wing policies and I don't think you would expect nor want me to, it's pretty narcissistic to expect all GN's to follow the same thought as OURSELVES!(omission) - AND I DON'T PUT YOU DOWN AS BEING THAT SORT OF POSTER." That is not a personal attack nor confrontational it is a generalisation, contextualised comment, unless you want it to be confrontational and by hell there is an appetite by some to want confrontation.

My last sentence in the previous post seems rather misguided too having read your response.

I would like to say this to those who continually challenge my opinion, If you don't like having posters who can or will challenge what you post, then 'IMPROVE YOUR ARGUEMENT' .

A point in question:-

If you 'initiate' a question of a personal nature to a poster and they give you a reply that doesn't suit your remit is it not better to show you have the temerity to accept their reply even if you don't agree with them or don't bother in the first place.

DJ

I agree that GN is favoured by those who don't vote Conservative but those who possibly do probably can't be assed to join in the forum when there is a will to detract from any post that raises valid points but attracts a barage of ill will . Boredom sets in!

I note there was no appetite to answer the question of hypocrisy over zero hours, NHS privatisation and the top rate of tax, I would have thought it more productive to respond to those issues in defence of Labour rather than simply shoot the messenger but I guess it's whatever pleases.

POGS Why bring in narcissism at all then? Saying that something is indicative of narcissistic behaviour but then adding words to the effect of "but I'm not aiming that remark at you" is not very convincing.

So funny, Ed 'two kitchens 'Milliband v Dave 'I am not sure how many houses I own' Cammeron

I deliberately used the 'Two Kitchens' because although it was all over the media at the time, not a hint of it on here! It was just to make my point that EM seems untouchable and at least it's recent - that quote of yours goes back to 2009, Anniebach.

I fear the idea of reducing the welfare budget because it runs the risk of increasing the division between rich and poor. This is an unhealthy and potentially dangerous position for a society to be in. It is fine for politicians and strategists to say that a strong economy will eventually filter down to the poorest, but if you are one of those people that is an extraordinarily bitter pill to swallow.

If there were a party that would seek to redress that division via redistribution of wealth and opportunities in the education system; and a party that sought to make sure that only one parent need work in order to support their family, they would get my vote. I am still looking for that party.

If there was a party somewhere in between Labour and Tories, I would probably vote for it. Repeatedly.

At the moment, I am probably still stuck on UKIP. Which is a bit of a sorry state of affairs. It isnt so much a protest vote, as, we have had the other two in power, and I dont fancy being partly responsible for either of them having the power again right now.
I dont even particularly like UKIP.

If you don't like 'em, then don't vote for 'em. Simple.

Better to not vote (never thought I would hear myself say that).

But lots of people, especially women, say that women got us the vote, so we should use it, no matter what.

So I feel obligated.

Obligated to vote for a party whose policies you don't like!

If there are no parties that you feel have got sufficient policies in tune with your views that you feel it right to vote for them, then you have no choice but not to vote.

But soontobe, do you see UKIP as a party between Tory and labour ?

Eloethan, I presume your comment 'I find it irritating when people who imply that they are apolitical always seem to rush to the defence of the Conservative Party when it is criticised' was aimed at me?

Why shouldn't I defend the Conservative Party if and when I see fit? I'd probably defend the Labour party if it was being vilified, but of course it never is!

I decided long ago not to bother posting on political threads. I am so glad I have held to that.

I also feel obliged to vote and will do so, but without any real enthusiasm for the candidate or party.

If you feel obligated to vote, soon, just go and spoil your vote.
Tell them why you cannot vote for anyone on the paper.