school rules gone mad

Insurance companies need to be notified of any changes, regardless of policies vampirequeen. (Just as your home insurance company would require you to tell them of any changes) Nor does there have to be negligence for a claim to go through. The school are responsible for anything that happens whilst the child is in their care or anything that happens on school premises. Maybe this school has suffered with parents claiming in the past and is being very careful.

It's a huge responsibility to place on non medically trained staff. DD was working as school administrator some years ago, and having undertaken the requisite course she became one of the school's first aiders. This was fine as far as it went-plasters, paracetamol, odd sprained ankle, sending squeamish pupils home etc., but the role gradually changed to include duties more appropriate to a school nurse. She was expected to deal with administering Ritalin amongst other medications, but what finished it for her was being asked to administer rectal Valium to one particular pupil-a strapping lad of 14. She resigned as a first aider at that point. She felt uncomfortable-not to say afraid-of taking on these responsibilities with the bare minimum of medical knowledge. Her words were "what if I get something wrong?" It's all very well being covered by insurance but if a mistake is made can you imagine how the staff member involved would feel?

All my dc and DIL work as senior school teachers or in educational MIS. It's not so simple to organise these things as you might expect. I'm not commenting on the OP as I don't know the full facts of their case, but there are always two sides to every story.

Goodness - I do think the rectal Valium was a step too far. However, that aside, we should get this all back into proportion. There are thousands of primary schools managing perfectly fine in helping young children with insulin injections. By the time they get to secondary school ( if not before) the children are doing their own injections. I coukd see an argument for secondary schools needing a health care assistant type post but primary schools I am sure can cope with the right attitude otherwise no primary school age children with diabetes would go to school!

Do all diabetic children of primary school age need an injection during school hours?

No - some will be on two injections, before and after school and some ( very few I think) on a pump. Others on 4 a day of which three are before meals so one before lunch. Staff will need to be very aware though regardless - able to do finger tip testing, looking out for signs of hypo, checking what child is eating ( the two injection regime means similar amount of carbs at each meal)

Just asked a friend of mine how her daughter (now adult, diagnosed type 1 aged 4) managed her insulin at primary school. She came home for lunch which solved any problem.

Not the answer for everyone, I know, just how one particular family coped.

I am not saying this should not happen in school but is it really the role of the teacher? We already have pupils/students and parents who feel that teachers are there to provide qualifications for the child now some are saying they must provide nursing care too.

Teachers are there to provide an education; anything else will need to be set up and controlled and may need other staff to do these things and will certainly need the input of both child and parent. Other staff may mean costs to the school which has to be sorted out. Preparation means checking out with the appropriate body that everything is done to safeguard all the children.

I cannot see what this school has done wrong other than insist the child stays safe while they ensure everything is right for them at school.

As I say, those shouting that this should be an automatic and instant right for the child would soon shout if anything went wrong.

Anyone having a hypo is a scary thing. Having been married to a type 1 diabetic whilst I was teaching did actually come in handy, as I could recognise a hypo and correct if necessary. I always had glucose tablets in my bag. Other teachers knew. If there was a diabetic, he or she would often have a bottle of Lucozade to hand to the teacher.

Even as far back as the 50s there were diabetics in normal schools. They survived. The difference now is, as GT says, the number of injections. It's to do with keeping tighter control of diabetes. It always used to be that the diabetic had to have an injection 20 minutes before a meal. With the different types of insulin now, it is possible to have an injection with the meal or even after the meal, so the timing is not so strict.

It's not just a problem in schools. It's also a problem in nursing homes. I know of homes where there is only one member of staff who can give injections. If that member is not there, a district nurse has to be called in. That must be wrong. There should be a trained member of staff on duty at all times, considering the increase in diabetes in older people.

I know schools stand in loco parentis but how far do we want that to extend?
We can't have it all ways. Just a thought

So what's the solution, KateK? Not to allow diabetic children to go to school?

My kids used to have to have epipens in secondary school. It was all done with the minimum of fuss.
I dont see what is so difficult in this case.
Perhaps it is because it is now an academy, so they have not got systems in place?

Personal responsibility Jen.

But what is that in the case of a diabetic child going to school?
These days, diabetics are told to get exercise. Exercise uses up blood sugar. An 8 year old child does not always understand how he feels. There is a fine line between being okay and going hypo.
I used to dread going shopping with my husband in the morning because if he was going to have a hypo, it would be in the morning, so I used to make up all sort of reasons to stay at home in the morning, and go shopping in the afternoon when the kids were little.

As a nurse, and former paediatric nurse, I think it's a big imposition on a teacher to be expected to give daily medications, particularly insulin. Before you inject you need to check what the blood sugar level is and sometimes vary the dose depending on the reading.

It's a different situation altogether from being trained to use an Epipen which is only needed in a rare emergency.

I don't think for one minute it is intended that teachers do this. I think this s
being bigged up out if all proportion. Thousands of children with diabetes go to mainstream school every day- as they do with asthma and epilepsy and schools manage . It's probably harder to have children with autism or AHD or just children who are over tired because they are allowed to stay up late . My dgs (4) has a classmate with T1 - everyone just gets on with it

i can understand your concerns Jen, it must have been very difficult for you to live with your husband's condition. In emergency situations of course the school has to be aware and deal with them effectively. It could be anything from a broken leg to epilepsy, concussion, hypo/hyper attack or getting hit in the face with a hockey ball. Routine medication is a different issue and there is no reason for this little boy to miss school until the school itself sorts out its policies/procedures. The family could perhaps organise for one of them to go in at lunchtime or, if they're working, perhaps a family friend/grandparent could be asked to come in. There's no point in getting aereated about what the school is/isn't doing currently-it still leaves the problem. Address the immediate issue which is to keep this little lad in education. and then work with the school to put appropriate measures in place once the pressure is off both parties.

Riverwalk-I asked DGD yesterday if they have any diabetics in her school and she said yes, one boy. I then asked her what he did about injections and she said he had to go out 20 mins before lunch and do 'maths' after he'd pricked his finger so they could get his dinner 'right'. As you say, it's sometimes not as simple as just using a preloaded pen injector.

But it's not difficult - it's only about the dose related to the carbs they will be having and it's easy to learn how to do that if you're the trained member of staff. The child will be involved in this calculation as part of moving towards self management. The correct dose is then 'dialled' on the pen . It must have been hard in the past when syringes had to be used.

I agree it's not difficult GT in terms of prepping the insulin, but from school's side of things if a member of staff -be it teaching staff or admin - is involved then who is covering for them? They can't be doing two things so someone else has to be timetabled to cover their class/work for perhaps 20 mins. You cannot leave a class unsupervised and if admin can't get cover they're playing catchup all day. Not always easy to arrange cover especially in smaller schools. It's this type of fine detail that needs to be worked out. As I say, get him into school with family support and then work out the plan.

But why should teachers be expected to perform these 'easy' and 'not difficult' tasks?

They are there to teach.

Agree, GT. As stated earlier, it was only when pens came in and different types of insulin mix were used that the control allowed for three or four injections a day. From the fifties, kids only used to have injections twice a day, before and after school. Hypos necessitating hospital and ambulances were much more common then.

Very true, Riverwalk.

Katek, you are talking about 5 minutes, not leaving them for a whole lesson. Finger pricking can be done in the classroom or just outside the door. Injections can be given through clothing.

It would be nice if teachers were just there to teach, River. That hasn't been true for a long time.

Teachers have always been more than just teachers.

Injections through clothing? Not in normal circumstances.

As for '5 minutes' - my argument is not about the time involved as such, more about the safety and efficacy of teachers undertaking such tasks.

It only takes 5 minutes for a teacher to change a child's nappy but should that become part and parcel of their daily routine - I know it's happening now, but is it acceptable?