school rules gone mad

dj, why did you have to make up reasons not to go shopping with your husband in the morning? Couldn't you just tell him his hypos were more likely to occur then so you felt it was safer for him and less stressful for you to go after the danger time? Surely he would have understood that?

Re the use of teachers' time... I think schools should employ a nurse or nanny sort of person if there are many duties such as nappy changing and injections to deal with. Otherwise, what about the teachers' duty to all the other kids in the class? And what about teachers' lunch breaks? I presume they are entitled to a lunch break like the rest of the working population.

Yes, it would cost more.

Believe me Jen, it really wouldn't be that simple. I can guarantee if you tried doing fingerprick tests in the classroom you'd have other parents complaining because their child was finding it distressing or it wouldn't be 'appropriate' for their children, or hygienic. You'd probably also find that the school wouid want 2 members of staff involved so one could back the other in event of any mishaps. It's highly unlikely that a school would just let you whip a kid outside the door, give them a quick jab then business as usual.. H & S would dictate (rightly or wrongly) that it shouid be done in private to ensure the child's dignity, somewhere there are hand washing facilities and you would also have a log for staff members to sign which is probably located in the school office. You would probably also have to log readings and justifications for any change in dose. I really wish it could be simple but I would bet on it being bureaucratically top heavy.

Yes, good teachers have always done more than just teach, but the demands made on them nowadays are becoming more and more difficult to meet. The LA which one of my children teaches in has no 'special' schools, it's about 'normalisation' and inclusivity. All well and good, but should my child be responsible for organising the clean up of a 15 year old boy with significant behavioural difficulties who messes himself in class? Or should he be teaching his subject?

But he didn't because he was a diabetic. It's more than just a physical illness. He always used to say he would be fine and would test his blood and have something to eat when necessary. I'm sure he was not the only diabetic who tried to act as normally as possible and do what he wanted when he wanted to. In fact, I know he wasn't.

Hypos are just not that predictable.

I'm sorry Jen but I agree with Katek and Riverwalk - teachers are there to teach.

They have estimated that a Primary School teacher averages a 60 hour week. Five minutes here and five minutes there will extend this. They are not nurses; noticeably even secondary schools rarely if ever have these now. Gove said he wanted to walk into a school and not be able to tell if it was state or independent. Every independent school I have had contact with had a nurse.

Cameron wanted larger pre-school classes run by one teacher until he found out the model he was lauding actually ran with one highly paid, highly qualified teacher and several teaching assistants. Teachers cannot do it all!

Of course diabetics should be able to be in school but all this school has said is that they need to take advice about how they do this. A little patience is all they are asking.

But you thought they were predictable enough to make excuses to go shopping in the afternoons, which suggests a certain amount of predictability. Being diabetic doesn't make people unreasonable, does it?

Minibags's secondary school has dedicated first aiders who are non-teaching staff. They deal with sick kids and calling parents if a kid needs to be taken out of school. Clearly, it can be arranged so as not to waster teachers' teaching time.

The child will give himself the injection, with just the adult needed to supervise. You do not need handwashing facilities as they always use special wipes to disinfect.

Isn't it better that all children see special needs children as a part of society rather than separate from society?
When my autistic grandson started school too much noise used to make him cry. The teacher explained to the other pupils why he would cry and they learned not to upset him. It's all part of family life, and should be treated as such.
Actually it's easier in primary school now as non-contact time is built into the school timetable for all teachers so there is always an adult available for any additional problems. If there are any teachers who refuse, perhaps they should reconsider their vocation.

I thought the non-contact time was for them to prepare lessons and stuff like that.

I don't think anyone is arguing that schools shouldn't be as inclusive as possible. The problem is that some of them simply don't have the funds to make themselves as inclusive as they would like. As gracesgran says, as far as we can tell, the school in question seems only to be asking for a bit of patience while they sort things out.

He did have hypos in the afternoon as well, bags, just not as often. As I said, they are not predictable. It got better when the kids were older because they could see what was happening and help to divert it. They would ask for one of his special sweets and he would take one himself. Glucose tablets work quite quickly.

Diabetes is great in theory. It's just the practice that's the problem.
My mother was a nurse, and never understood about carbohydrates in meals until after she started having to give herself injections.

Of course non-contact time is for preparation and marking etc. But if a diabetic child has a hypo, and there is a member of staff who is not in charge of a class and refuses to help, that would just be sad. Like I said, she should reconsider whether she should be in a school.

Oh dj, non-contact time is supposed to be just that, time without children to prepare lessons, write reports, mark work, plan and review policies and get through the endless paperwork now required of the teaching profession. Of course in practice it seldom works out like that, but to think that an exception to this should be the regular requirements of one child opens the door to all sorts of things. This child needs an injection, that child needs more reading help, once you start the non-contact idea disappears totally. Teachers even with non-contact time spend weekends catching up on the work they didn't get done because there was an 'emergency' and they had to help out. Even the most dedicated struggle. Yes special needs children should be in ordinary schools but with the proper staff to support them, not the cheap option of loading it all onto the class teacher.

I think everyone is agreed that the ideal is that schools employ enough members of staff to deal with whatever medical/health requirements might crop up. I think it is unreasonable to expect teachers to take on this role except in emergencies. I very much doubt if many teachers would point blank refuse to help a child in an emergency but that is not the issue here. The issue is dealing with an ongoing health problem in the best way possible for all concerned.

X posts, trisher. Well said.

It is. Bags. Dd1 and Dil are faculty heads and, as such, have a set number of non teaching periods to do admin work involved in managing a department and to prepare their own material. This time is gradually being eroded with attendance at external meetings, 'please take' covers, pupil meetings etc. Before having Dgs my Dil was averaging 70 hours per week often with no lunch.

And as for teachers who refuse tasks rethinking their vocation Jen, I can assure you that it is only the dedicated ones who are prepared to stick it out. They are allowed to say no.

I think maybe a few days in a school would prove a real eye opener for you.

You have to decide Jen or rather the government does. Do you want separate schooling for children with any additional need or do you want to include as many as is realistic within the same schooling as their friends and neighbours.

If the first, you need to pay for it. If the second, you need to pay for it. You (the government) cannot just assume it is another five minutes teachers can take out of the already full working week to hold up an underfunded education system.

Thanks, KateK. I gave up teaching a long time ago. I do not need refresher courses. My son is a head of music, his wife is a language teacher, my other son's partner is a trained teacher working as a teaching assistant, even one of my granddaughters is starting a PGCE. I can get as much classroom experience as I need. I have three nephews and neices who are teachers, one of whom is a head in a school specifically for autistic kids.

That was in reply to DJ post, particularly the pearl that 'diabetes is great in theory'!

Our local comp does not have facilities, or perhaps did not have facilitites for children with special or complex needs.
So my children went to a school with no children in wheelchairs, fewer children with autism [or maybe none, I cant quite remember] etc. Personally I think that was detrimental to themselves and even the parents such as myself.

The problem is, gracesgran, that the government has decided that it wants inclusive schools but without paying more. Diabetes is not statemented. If it was it would get extra money.
Schools these days seem to be run on the fewest number of teachers with a greater number of teaching assistants. Any problems in a class and the teaching assistant usually gets sent out with the problem child. However, at least there are teaching assistants, which there were not when I was teaching.
When my grandson was in school, he had a 1-1 teaching assistant. When he went to secondary school, that TA was shared out. He had no idea who his TA was, even though the school was paid for him to have a 1-1.

Anya, have you lived with anyone with type 1 diabetes? If so, you will understand what I meant.

X posts also Trisher. Agree totally.