Have I got a choice?

I've just reasd through this thread again and notice you say you couldn't drive your DGS home because you don't have a car seat for him, louisamay.

Why not get one? It would surely be a good investment.

Ana - we would love to get a car seat but the idea was rejected when previously mentioned by us. We didnt put a price limit on it or anything like that. We have clean licenses, decent cars and drive responsibly. I have mentioned in my last email that I thought a car seat would be helpful. We can't just go ahead and buy one - that would not go down well at all.
Maybe you can see how difficult she makes things.

I'm sorry Thatbags but I have never ever queried her decisions before but please bear in mind that I am 72 (almost 73). Have been lucky to survive Sepsis, and do not relish being in the park for an hour and 45 minutes from 9am (when it can be quite damp down there). I am extremely worried about getting another cold, sore throat etc. I have been told that I must take good very good care of myself - which is sensible anyway. Frankly I would have expected DIL to take some of that into consideration - but no! She has been cold, uncaring and distant since I was ill and it bloody well upsets me. I'm not saying any more about it.

I really feel for you louisamay. I wonder if dil is terrified of illness? Grandson may be felt to be "safer" in the open air ? Likewise over protective feelings about someone else driving him. Irrational, but people do have irrational fears. I think your son needs to get to the bottom of it, as she may need help in overcoming, or at least recognising she has a problem. I'm sure it isn't personal, but really understand how you must be feeling especially as you need a lot of tlc after your recent illness. Hope Monday is a lovely day.

I don't think Monday is going to happen as I have not heard anything further from her. And normally she plans weeks ahead. I am recovering well but dealing with this is really not helping.

Oh, and her mum and sister have car seats! Had them for months.

Step back, louisamay, and give yourself over to recovery instead of nursing your hurt, and thereby giving your DIL time and space as well. Let her get on with her life without having to worry about your expectations of how she should behave to keep you happy, and visa versa.

Go with the "good enough" premise that you see your son and grandson regularly. How or where that happens doesn't matter. Embrace the fact that it does.

Life events such as serious illnesses does change the balance of what went before. Now you find yourself in a new situation with your DIL. It takes time to adjust for all concerned - just allow for the difference and see how it evolves.

I can understand you're angry and hurt, but is it all down to your DIL?

Trying to change someone else's behaviour often brings sadness. Changing one's own behaviour can reap rewards. A little patience can go a long way.

Wishing you both a happier time ahead.

You say your DiL normally plans weeks ahead. Maybe she feels a need to do that so she has a feeling of control. If so, a last minute change of plan could be very unwelcome.

You are right in all you say about your health, your need to recuperate and the kind of relationship you would like to have with your DiL.

Unfortunately she does not behave as you would like so your only option, as I see it, is to fit in with her or risk further alienation.

That doesn't have to mean risking your health though. If you feel that the idea of park visits is unsuitable at the moment then be happy that you see your DGS on Sundays.

Seeing your GS each week on your own turf with your own son there would certainly seem to be the best option at the moment, especially in view of your health. I hope you are able to just enjoy your time with him and not let your discomfort over your DIL's attitude spoil this - precious time to be treasured.

If GS gets to really enjoy that time, then he will be wanting to see you and that might tip things with your DIL in the long term But if he senses an atmosphere when he is there then he won't enjoy it as much - small children pick up these things very quickly.

I hope you can really enjoy your time with him - I am sure you will have ways of making it special.

You put it 'all down to post natal depression.' Are you a psychologist?? Why are you web speculating about her health which has nothing to do with you??

Secondly, she agreed to drop him off at the park with you for alone time and you have an issue with that?? This poor DIL can't get anything right. She doesn't have to spend time with you. That's her choice not yours.

Lastly you say you don't swear at the house but you did using *k on a public forum :/

As a DIL (looking for stories and experiences from 'the other side' having been verbally and physically attacked by my MIL - and more) I can't blame your DIL for wanting space. Wow. Just reading your post made my blood boil I hope your DIL is getting some support somewhere

Pink - I cannot agree with you. Your post seems to lack balance - which is understandable from your description of your MIL. There are always two sides to these problems and I think most of the people who have responded to the OP have recognised that, and have tried to advise that not risking putting pressure on the DIL is the way forward, whilst also recognising that the OP is feeling upset by the failure of this relationship.

This MIL is someone who has been through a period of serious ill health and who has felt hurt by some of the things that have happened with her DIL. It is not unusual for these relationships to be troublesome, and I would hope that here on Gransnet we might try and provide some comfort and support.

I am sorry that your MIL has proved to be a problem for you. But I do think that you will find that there are many good MILs on this site (and there is no sound reason for concluding that the OP is not one if these) who very often stand up for the DILs quite vociferously in some threads where it is appropriate and they can see that someone has overstepped the mark with their DIL.

Oh dear, Pinkjenstar...... when I said we put my DIL's verbal attack on us down to post natal depression, it was not meant to be an insult.. We used this expression (between DH and myself) to excuse her rudeness and shouting. It was quite terrifying and upsetting. Subsequently, she excused her treatment of us to my DS saying herself that it was 'post natal depression'. Only through our acceptance and continuing practical help (asked for) were we able to maintain a relationship with DIL. This is completely new episode that has originated since I was in hospital.

I hope this clarifies everything...

P.s. I would 'speculate' that my DIL has plenty of space. We have seen her three times since mid March - and that included her calling round (at her behest)'to collect her birthday present.

Just reading Pinks post has made my blood boil !

I'm pleased Coolgran said that and not me!!!

You have been seriously ill and have come through it so you must realise that life is much too short for all this soul searching. For reasons unexplained your DIL may never warm towards you. There is nothing you can do about that so you should stop wasting precious energy worrying about it and concentrate on building your relationship with your GS so that he looks forward to seeing you.

I think you are lucky that you can see him every week for a couple of hours as distance prevents me doing that with my GC. Also, it sounds like your DH can accompany you if you went to the park so, again, you are fortunate.

The park meeting may not be your ideal but sometimes we cannot have our own way. If it is the only offer on the table, and you decline, you may end up being the loser in the long term.

Whatever you decide I wish you well and hope you recover completely from your illness very soon.

The park certainly doesn't seem in the least bit satisfactory to me. Did you say 15 minutes drive from her house louisa? And you with no means of getting him home if you feel poorly, he gets upset for any reason or it rains? Is there a cafe or play barn there? Otherwise not at all practical.

While you're still recuperating surely she would agree to dropping him at your house for a couple of hours maybe once a fortnight? She doesn't have to come inside.

Either that or you just see him with your DS when he can bring him round.

No cafe or Playbarn - just dubious toilets where dubious folk hang out!
DIL hasn't thought it through - but what do I know?!

Does it have to be park ....how about the library...is there one near

No, Just pulled it down.

Since you see your GS every week anyway, why not just say you can't manage the park thing and leave it at that?

I agree 100% with thatbags. Enjoy the time you have with DGs and DS - leave DIL to get one with it. Look after yourself and don't fret the "small stuff" as they say. Hey once a week is great and with your son as well - many should be so lucky. Early morning park run is out of the question and let it be known that that is totally unreasonable. We grans have to be able to stand up for our own well being in the face of unreasonable (intentional or otherwise) demands from our Dil's or Sil's. Don't be afraid to say "no" - bullies bank on compliance and whatever her reasons/excuses are she is actually bullying you and it's not nice. So stand firm. IMHO

Oh dear. I'm sorry you were ill, and I'm glad to hear you are on the mend.

As unpopular as I am about to become, I see one common issue throughout your posts that could be the reason DIL is distancing herself. There seems to be an awful lot of conversations between you, your DH and DS about DIL's behaviour. There also seems to be a fair bit of "tattling" by you and your DH to DS. I know you believe DS would never repeat any of these conversations to her, but honestly if they have a strong relationship, the kind you should want him to have, he absolutely does repeat every word to her.

If I were DIL in this situation I would also distance myself. However, her biggest problem is not you or your DH, it is DS. He needs to stop starting and/or humouring these conversations. She likely feels ganged up on by you three. She's not wrong.

If you can, I would also stop the "grandma competitions". You get weekly visits of a few hours, other grandma gets longer, non-weekly visits. Things can never be 50/50, but it actually sounds to me like they're pretty close. In fact, your DIL is even accommodating your request for more time. You just don't like the location. I believe you have valid concerns, but I don't believe they get to dictate where the visits take place. If the park your DIL suggested doesn't work, and it sounds like it doesn't right now, then just carry on with your other weekly visits.

Speaking of which, try to get over the "DS's house" issue. They have been living there for three years. They are raising their child there. It is just as much her place as his. I've never met you but your attitude on this comes through quite clearly.

While I don't think DIL is directing her anger appropriately at you, it is likely these DIL bashing conversations that are causing her attitude. She should be upset with DS, and I hope she will call him to task on it. In the meantime, I would suggest that you stop complaining, gossiping, tattling, and otherwise talking badly about her to your DS. If he brings her up, I suggest you change the topic. Because it's either you and your DH constantly complaining, or it's your DS playing both sides. Either way, DIL is left with three people critiquing and complaining about her every move, who then wonder why she doesn't want to spend more time with them.....

I have read this right through, and I feel really sorry for OP, not just for the unreasonable and unfathomable treatment louisamay is getting from her DIL but from some rather unkind comments on the thread. As for pinkjenstar your comment was aggressive and uncalled for. This forum is for help, understanding, suggestions and support and not for attack. For what my opinion is worth, I think DIL is behaving unfairly and irrationally with no reason that I can fathom. I would never have 'dumped' my son in the park with my MIL with no means of getting him home, especially if, as she says, the child is having separation issues. Perhaps explain that the Monday park visit is too risky for DGS and for you due to your health, and just stick to visits from your son and grandson at home. I wish you a good recovery from what must have been a terrifying time, and for what it is worth, I think you and DH have shown remarkable restraint in the face of such appalling rudeness.

Thatdil - You have taken the words out of my mouth as this was the interpretation I had of the situation. However I would go further and say that it comes across as though the recent illness is being used as a means of manipulating the situation further as OP expectation is Dil should consider this and would not be unreasonable to expect similar conversations with ds.

I would urge you to proceed with caution, accept and embrace the contact you have. If you care deeply for your son and grandson don't put their family under strain by criticizing your dil. She has made some effort and we can't always have things our own way, you are being unreasonable trying to provoke disharmony to promote your own wants.

My own mil has done the same things as you and my dh behaved in the same way as your son for the first eight years of our relationship. It got too much for me in the end and I asked for a divorce and meant it. That was the catalyst for my dh to evaluate his behaviour and how he dealt with his mother's demands, he realised that there was a total lack of respect for his little family on her part and that he had taken for granted I would never leave, she used illness to manipulate too. If you are not careful you could lose everything just as my mil did.