Strip Off!

The image of two armed policemen telling a woman in a burka to remove clothing was shocking.
It is easy to understand that a secular county like France, reeling from attacks by Daesh supporting people wants to assert its identity. Attempting to ban the burkini isn't the way to go and I'm relieved its been found to be illegal.

It's led to some great images on social media. My favourite is the photograph (or photoshot) of a group of nuns in full garb, paddling in the sea.

some Muslim women choose to wear the hijab ( e.g. Nadia Hussain of bake off fame)
Yes, she does and she said her father was horrified when she decided to do that, as many women in her family don't wear one.

Thwe French are the ones that have dared to stand up to IS. Hence them becoming targets.

The nuns thing is ridiculous. Nuns choose to wear the uniform when they decide to join up.

Interesting that you don't seem to see the black robed nuns in European countries. They seem to be more into grey dresses.

(last sentence apropos of nothing at all)

Oh yes, so they do
Is grey more flattering?

(it does nothing for me, grey I mean)

Why does Nadia choose to do it? Anyone brave enough to ask her when she comes on Gransnet for the webchat?

Perhaps it doesn't absorb the heat like black does.

She said that it is to cover her 'bad hair'

I bet she has lovely hair

Well, she will have bad hair if she wears a headscarf all the time.

Most women who wear a scarf only do so in public and not at home. None of our business why she chooses to do so- but I'd be pretty surprised if it is actually to cover up 'bad hair'.

Interestingly, many Nuns who wore a tunic covered by a scapular and cowl with a veil in the late 60's no longer do so today. This was because they felt that they could reach the public to do their charitable work wearing civvies with a veil covering their heads. I grew up around Nuns and I didn't think anything of their attire even when you could only see their faces, everything else completely covered. Perhaps that is why it doesn't bother me at all if people choose to cover up as part of their identity any more than it does Hell's Angels, EMO's or any other kind of "club" and I don't think anybody has the right to question it.

Not even for the sake of future generations? When something they are being made to wear is uncomfortable and unhealthy?

Nuns used to scare the shite out of me.

An Iranian student in a class I was teaching, at coffee time, when the men all went to have a break (ciggie), took off her scarf to show us what was under it. Shock horror! Her hair was cropped very short and dyed blonde. She looked terrific, but she had to put the scarf on when non-related males were present. She did have a lovely selection of scarves which her mother used to send her from Iran.

Ironic, isn't it!

On one thread some of us are moaning about the state of our hair, yet on this one we are discussing whether women should choose or have to cover their hair.

Is it considered erotic in Islam, that no man apart from a woman's husband is allowed to see it?
I can't see why there is this need to cover it, but if that is what women choose to do fair enough.

I don't know if I'm missing the point or not, but that woman at Nice beach who stripped off on allegedly being forced by four burly armed men was not wearing a burkini, or any garment which was recognisably Muslim, even. She was wearing a blue top over black loose trousers and top and a separate blue scarf wrapped around her head.

Had she been western, I bet no-one would've given it a second thought.

I wonder if these paintings by Georges Seurat should get the chop too? The people in the first are mostly fully clothed, and every one of the adults is wearing a hat! In the second, the woman is probably wearing twice as many clothes as the woman on the beach at Nice!

www.georgesseurat.org/Sunday-Afternoon-on-the-Island-of-la-Grande-Jatte--1886-large.html

www.georgesseurat.org/Bathers-(Study-For-Bathers-At-Asnieres)-1883-84-large.html

I read somewhere that the armed police on the beach v.burkini lady was staged. I think all this is revenge by the French for Nice and Rouen. I cannot stand the face covering outfits in the uk . I think most of the time they are making a point. I think in Muslim countries then these poor women are stuck. The women I've met in the uk have always appeared to be wearing it because they are used to it. As new brides they always seemed to have clothes bought by husbands that struck me as rather tarty. It will over the next few hundred years turn into traditional worn for special occasions outfit like kimonos or dirndls.

Ah yes, nuns! During the height of The Troubles, the nuns were forced to remove their veils and that solved everything

Can we have a link to that news item please Anya. I find it hard to believe.

Yes Stansgran. And if you had a police-person on duty that night in Nice, you might be feeling a little animosity to anything muslim right now. I'm not saying it's right. Or that is/was the case. Just that, if it was, it's understandable.

had been

In her new program Nadiya said she decided to wear it when she was 14 and she discovered religion even though her own family aren't particularly religious.. she likes the feeling of modesty it gives.

It's interesting to note how many countries ,including some European countries such as Switzerland,France, Italy have a 'Burka Ban'. I believe Germany has just decided not to go ahead with a proposal.

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/burka-bans-the-countries-where-muslim-women-cant-wear-veils/

If we are discussing the Burka/Niqab I am minded of two voices of women I have heard.

One was a woman interviewed recently in Syria in a town that had been liberated by the Kurds. She ' hated 'the burka with all her soul and what it stood for and the fact Daesh made them wear them.

The other is an Iranian friend who ' hates ' the burka with all her soul too. Before the fall of the Shah of Iran in 1979 she remembers the relative freedom the country had , including female clothing. We all know what happened afterward and the rule of Ayotolla Khomeini and I for one see the burka as nothing more than 'the imprisonment of women'.

As for the incident on the beach I thought it was over the top and unnecessary. I felt sorry for the woman to be honest.

Nadiya does not wear a burka/niqab and looks beautiful in her hijab.

Another point the Muslim faith cannot agree on is the wearing of the burka in accordance with it's own teachings.

Quoting tanith. "she likes the feeling of modesty it gives."

Sounds like posturing to me.