Problems which are not problems

I must say though, that I found the words of comfort and encouragement extremely helpful. I would have 'gone nuts' without GN!

ann, I'm sorry you feel that way. This is not the first time I've felt that nothing I say, or ever have said directly to you (or sometimes more generally) fits with how you think I should comport myself on GN and if it's at all possible to find offence in what I say or how I say it, then you will. I don't think it's deliberate. I just think it's a pity because, other than regretting that you seem to misunderstand what I post, I have no negative feelings towards you at all and never have had.

Baggs I am sorry if my post suggested that I thought you were the friend in question, it was meant to apply in general, "what sort of friend would that be"
I think I do know what you mean by "depresses" maybe "drains"(?) but speaking as someone whose keel is uneven to the point of bumpy, I have never found it hard to feel or show compassion to genuine misfortune. I used to encounter a lot of it (giving and receiving) in the rellies' room at the Royal Free attached to ITU where one way and another I seemed to spend a lot of time, there were family members facing bereavement and those still clinging on to hope. We all still did what we could to support each other, only withdrawing to a discreet distance when it was apparent that bad news was imminent.
So I don't think I misunderstood you, but there are of course many people whose personal issues do occupy their attention to the exclusion of all others , but fortunately I encounter few of those.

Nana&grampy your last post resonates with me.

Ann please dont be upset,
You have given me some good advice regarding an operation
You have been an ambassador on behalf of GN going to Visit Ruby whilst she was in hospital and passing on our best wishes.
And then reporting back.

Not only that ....we auditioned together (on crutches) for the GN Panto
not sure which one of us got the parrot

You have done all this and more whilst coping with the trials and tribulations of your daily life.

So I am raising a glass or tfwo to you Ann one hope that you will join me .

Thank you for that post, maw. As we both know, without seeing faces, it's all too easy not to get as much from a communication as we would face to face.

Well, I will stick my head up above the parapet and confess that I have only just started back and for a while have been only 'lurking' on gn because I have felt quite unable to do anything else. I have great sympathy as well as empathy for Ann and others in truly dreadful situations. DH and I have been in one of those too which has made me feel very unwell and quite unable to cope with things such as others' problems, many of which do seem trivial in comparison. I was reading a thread today which made my tum go into knots and I had to retreat as fast as I could. Perhaps when I read that thread it just pushed me over the limit of what I could currently manage and maybe others feel like that too, I think I was reacting from the depths I am in.
Things are improving for us and, whilst I am very aware that for some this will not happen, I am really looking forward to the day, if it ever comes, when normality returns. I just don't know what normal is any more!!
Coincidentally, I was talking with DS about this very thing yesterday and we were reminiscing about playing 'The glad game.' We both did this when we were quite young and we were trying to remember if it was Anne of Green Gables or Pollyanna - or was it both of them who played this game? Whichever it is, it is certainly a therapeutic thing to do if we can - but very hard for us all particularly when we are in a very bad place. I am going to try it anyway and so is she in the hopes that it might just help.

Sorry to hear of your troubles Synonymous - I send you my best wishes and a bunch of
Love from Danni xx

I just find Baggs post to me very troubling and mystifying. I have obviously been unaware of any occasions when I have taken offence at anything you have posted or commented on how you comport yourself on GN.
I must be unaware of how I come across.
I promise you all I will not be droning on about myself on this or any other threads any more.

I've pm'd you Ann. Meanwhile stay in the kitchen where we would miss you if you weren't there.

Oh annsixty please don't take this to heart.

Ann, I've pm'd you as well. Please done let this hurt you x

Annsixty you do NOT drone.
You made a very understandable point, with or without your home circumstances.
Laughter can often be "the best medicine" and there are also times when it seems superficial and out of place.
However I didn't get the impression that you were decrying the lighterhearted threads or the "bit of fun" posts but echoed what anybody might feel about the overthinking of trivial issues. Bluebelle's fictitious dilemma about heels v flats, for instance.
Don't be deterred by semantics such as sympathy v empathy,I'm not dismissing them but caring can go a long way in making life tolerable.
Off loading is not droning on.
Please do not think you ever have to hold back from saying what you feel.

Ann, I echo what lots of people have said - you do not drone. And, if you want to offload on here - that's part of what it and we are for! Stay with us.

If "I might as well shut up now", "I feel humiliated", and "condescending attitude" do not mean that my posts were found wanting and offensive, then I apologise for thinking they did.

I joined in (in my first post on this thread) with comments about ann not feeling any need to leave GN because of the opening post and I defended another poster whose posts were criticised because she was unaware of ann's home situation.

I was careful to emphasise that my comments about sympathy and empathy were not criticisms. They still were taken as such, it seems.

I don't regret any of the ideas I've put forward in this thread. I don't say things to be condescending or to humiliate someone, nor do I wish anyone to shut up on any subject whatsoever. I don't think anyone has defended free speech as strongly as I have on Gransnet over and over again.

I've already said that I'm sorry ann has taken things to heart as she has. I'll say it again: I really am. But she knew her opening post was likely to generate some discussion — she said as much in it! — which is exactly what it did.

PS I don't know who said droning on but it wasn't me.

ann Sorry that you have so much on your plate that you are feeling sensitive and thought you were being got at.

The discussion about sympathy/empathy was a side track. These words have been discussed on GN before and some people thought that offering sympathy was pitying and demeaning and shouldn't be done, whereas empathy was a good thing. I (and Baggs too, I think) don't agree. All a matter if which exact words are used, nothing really to do with the comfort that kind words from friends can give.

I hope the many supportive posts have helped.

I'm sorry to hear this thread doesn't seem to have helped at all ann but I wonder if anything would or could? You are feeling so low that anything, real or perceived is just one thing too many.

There isn't anything that can be said here I think that will help you, you KNOW ( at least I hope you do) that we care about you and feel for you in your current situation but all that feeling, caring, loving wont help one jot when you are faced with the same million questions hour after hour, day after day.

I just hope you can come here, offload a little and know there are people - even virtual ones- who will listen and care x

I think if you have really personal problems then you do of course maybe ask people on a site like this their opinion. I also think it ends there.

I just saw this quote on Twitter posted by Mireille Dalissier (@mireilleda1). Seems pertinent to this thread:

I mentioned early on that wartime problems see more serious than current ones. But re-thinking, a new group of problems has grown recently due to people living longer.
Like yours, Ann.
They're long-term problems that drag on for years, undermining the carer's physical and mental strength. Most of us on here will experience them sooner or later

At the risk of being told off for being patronising and assuming that posters can't translate that for themselves, could I just say that the French "sensible" does NOT mean sensible, it means sensitive?

So the quote says "Those who seem to be strong are often the most sensitive".

Just saying - before someone comments that they think being sensible is another word for cold and uncaring.

That's often the case though, isn't it!

To Baggs

BAGS Having had a dreadful week (including non responsive computer and car and refusal of Attendance Allowance) I am now back on a more even keel i.e. 'Onwards and Downwards' and belatedly reading this thread. Your quote (and Elegran - no I did not feel patronised even though I managed to translate all by myself, just as I eventually fixed my computer and car) Your quote really resonated because every one from family and friends to medical staff, keep telling me that I am a STRONG woman and will COPE no matter what - in my heart I believe this is just their way of absolving themselves from taking any further responsibility or helpful action.

COPE has been my near life long motto, tempered by something I learned from a woman I worked with who had a horrendous back story. She taught me that the way to cope was not to stonewall against adversity but rather to be like one of those wibbly, wobbly toys that, when pushed, rocks way back then forwards until it eventually regains equilibrium. However, the word/concept that struck me most in this long thread was ACCEPTANCE, coming to terms with the hand that life has dealt, ceasing to rail and fight against it,ignoring all the, well meant but fatuous, advice/suggestions which promise to get you out of, or at least ameliorate, your circumstances or predicament. I will adopt ACCEPT as my new motto, cease to fight the System, just say OK and do what suits us best, or what I can manage at the time - anything for a quiet (if soul destroying) life.

Which brings me to the Sympathy v Empathy debate, recognising that neither butters any parsnips. I think it was Nana and Grampy who used the word 'Caring' which to my mind is what we all seek, cf the 'No Real Friends' thread. People need to be valued, to feel that someone actually cares about them. Someone who will actually listen to concerns and stand with them when they feel the need to vent. All to often the 'How are you' question is asked and then after a brief 'that's a shame' leads on to recitation of a catalogue of ills currently being suffered on their part, or the dreaded 'you should just.....'. Do they not realise that if it were as easy as that, then you would already have solved the problem?

3 times yesterday I was urged to 'count my blessings', in light of the tragic Tower Block Fire in London. Being brutally honest I was annoyed because when I turned on the TV to cheer myself up as the computer was dead, there was only wall to wall coverage of another dreadful event. Yes I do care but being unable to do anything, no matter how small to help, it only deepened my depression and confirmed my growing belief that any attempt to do the right thing, to improve things for your family and the wider world, is useless as the fickle finger of fate will point at YOU and Yours in the end.

I expect nothing from this post, other than an opportunity to write my thoughts down and stand foursquare beside Ann60

Granny23 - as N&G said (I think upthread or on another one one ) I too like to think of practicalities so would ask whether you had help from AgeUK to fill in your AA form? If you didn't, please reapply with their help. They use all the right words in all the right places.

And, it's not much use but please accept a huge (((hug))) as the only thing I can offer you along with sympathy/empathy/caring. It doesn't really matter what it's called, in my view, so long as we have it.