Problems which are not problems

Well of course if people don't share problems/ worries/ concerns , and are not seen to be very sympathetic to others , it is assumed they don't have any. I know that you have health problems Baggs as you have said so in posts.
I hope they are not getting worse and interfering with everyday life.

I certainly should Baggs.

And if I may add "Ouch!" ?

I have to disagree Baggs I don't think empathy is over-rated. In fact I'd like to see a bit more of it. Its empathy for someone's situation that helps me be a bit more patient maybe than I would looking purely at the facts.

But of course we are all different ( thank goodness )

I do agree about the phrase being able to deal with others problems better when you're on an even keel yourself though.

I also think some of us are 'doers' I like to offer physical help and am at a loss sometimes when that's not possible. Even in terms of bereavement I am uncomfortable just saying sorry for your loss, my heart wants to offer practical help.

I loved the poem Maw !

I hope today is a day with a bright spot at least in it for you Ann even with the added house worries !!

My health problems have interfered with everyday life for thirty-five years, ann. But that wasn't what I was referring to. My point is simply that just because you don't know someone's problems, because they don't talk about them on a public forum, doesn't mean they don't have them.

I have in the past expressed sympathy for your situation and I'm glad I'm not in it.

n&g, my over-rated comment was a bit bald, I know. I'm thinking of some published papers I read about saying the same thing but in a scholarly way. Anyway, one can be empathic and sympathetic without anyone knowing, if there has been no chance to express one's sympathy, for instance, or if, for some reason, one doesn't want to. Perhaps it has been rejected in the past or something like that.

Does anyone else feel that sympathy is something to be expressed, provisos above aside, and empathy is something one just feels as in sensing another's discomfort because of some behaviour of theirs?

Some posts are trivial and others are serious, but all fill a need to the poster, I think.

Perhaps one's friends' misfortunes wouldn't make one 'sad' if one's own life was on an even keel, maw. Have you considered that? You know, being full of sympathy and being strong for someone else, when your own keel is damaged
Some of the kindest and most helpful people I have met have been those with "their own cross to bear". Some of the most empathic and effective Samaritans have been those whose lives were far from easy.
I find it strange Baggs that you ask if I have considered "that"? I would be a selfish person indeed if I let my own issues render me incapable or unwilling to be a source of support for others. And yes, I have "considered" the get-out you quote.
There are many of us whose lives are far from being on an immovably even keel, but however dark the night, there must always be compassion for others.
I prefer the word "compassion" to "sympathy" even if they mean the same sort of thing - I can feel for others, whether in a similar situation to my own or with wildly different problems. I may think "there but for the grace of god" but would never allow my own grief or pain to diminish my capacity to feel for others. Compassion does not come in finite quantities after all.
Walk away because a friend's situation depresses me?
What sort of friend would do that?

I like "frivol", Christinefrance, but I think I have come across it in Dorothy L. Sayers' Peter Wimsey novels. This puts you in distinguished company!

Correction; this puts DLS in distinguished company.

Yes

agree with "more"
but must add being gobsmacked into uncontrollable fits of laughter have been very good for me.
www.gransnet.com/forums/health/1237405-Vibrators
had me laughing so hard staffy pup stared and barked at me.like i was a loon

Yes I think you're right Baggs about sympathy being expressed but empathy being felt.

I wonder if sympathy just felt is pity? I'm not sure but definitely food for thought.

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”
Like you, Nana, I think sympathy is more like pity, feeling "for" someone.
Whereas empathy is feeling "with" someone. But that's just me.
Baggs - I agree with a point you made earlier that being able to feel for others is a genetic trait (at least I think that's what you said or implied.)

I agree with you Tricia and N&G.

maw, I don't just mean a friend's situation "depresses" in the scornful way your post seems to suggest. I don't mean anything so ordinary as that. Also, in the case I mentioned, I didn't walk away. It was more complicated. However if you wish to persist in thinking the worst of me (and, incidentally, all those others I mentioned who felt the same), do carry on. I don't think you've quite understood my keel remark either. Never mind. I know I am not the fair weather friend your comments seem to imply.

n&g, I think sympathy is sometimes seen/felt as pity even when it isn't that from the point of view of the person expressing it. Perhaps, as with so many things, the line between sympathy and pity is very fine and different people see it, so to speak, in different places depending on where they're at at the time, iyswim!

tricia, yes, that is what I meant, so far as I understand such things, which is not very far.

Well, the prefix sym- means “together” or “with,” and the prefix em- means “within, in,”

So sympathy is suffering alongside the sufferer, and empathy is entering into the suffering, as though you were suffering too, exactly the same as the sufferer (perhaps like the couvade?)

Sympathy used to be the word always used, nowadays empathy has joined it, even passed it, as people looked for a new way of saying something more than the traditional sympathy. I wonder whether this is due to the general trend toward being more explicitly touchy-feely?

Baggs very nice, to the differences in sympathy. I can fail, spectacularly, at sympathy, but empathise well.

Ah, thank you, elegran, for saving me from myself yet again! I'm remembering now some vague details of the scholarly article I read and I seem to remember it talked about the touchy-feely thing about modern society. I think it was critical of the tendency, it saw, of social pressure being put on people to respond more to other people's not always serious problems with more gusto and being seen as a pariah if you don't, not because you don't feel ordinary sympathy, but because you are simply not the gushy type. And, perhaps, because sympathy wears thin when it's never enough or when people simply don't believe you when you express it cos they think you're horrid.

I've not read that article, Baggs but I have noticed the rise of empathy and the decline of sympathy as reactions to other people's sufferings.

Once upon a time (when I and the world were young) no-one had met the word "empathy" except perhaps as a technical expression in some learned psychological paper. If someone was bereaved or had some other great misfortune, what you gave them was your sympathy, and they appreciated it in the spirit it was given.

Then it seemed that sympathy was starting to be considered to be just a conventional word on a greetings card (as condolences had) and if you really wanted to give comfort, you had to go the extra mile and have empathy. The more empathy was expressed, the lower sympathy seemed to sink in the table of desirable emotions.

But to equate it with a condescending and rather sanctimonious pity does seem to me to be rejecting a spontaneous offer of comfort.

I find I can be sympathetic up to a point and that point is where the person is doing nothing to help themselves . For instance maybe staying in an abusive relationship when there are alternatives . When it becomes obvious someone wants to discuss their situation ad infinitum but does nothing to help/ rectify or solve it - then I can't buy into what I perceive as a 'pity party' .

That might sound harsh , I'm not sure but I'm sure it's to do with me needing to offer practical support not just words !

Well as we don't all read scholarly articles or certain published papers, we sadly are left behind. I only had a grammar school education and cannot compete .
I feel very humiliated for my lack of understanding and my education and the condescending attitude
I will leave this now, I have had enough.

nanna I have a friend who has spent the last 30+ years moaning about her husband and I must say my sympathy ran out years ago

Well, you'll all be glad to hear that I've finished moaning about my partner and am looking forward to living alone albeit in the wilds of Norfolk!! ?