To think women are more than just wives, mothers and grandmothers.

If it isn't then the implication is that those who don't have husband, children and grandchildren have nothing.

Remember the label 'spinster'?

Oh yes and widows were once known as Relicts. Can you imagine calling someone a relict now?

Good point, Eglantine.
I'm inclined to think and feel the same way as Trisher about this. Perhaps the maternal instinct is stronger in some than in others.
Or some of us divert our maternal instinct to a wider scope.
(Without being judgemental as to which is best, or more natural.)

Trisher, so agree with your last post, of course being a woman is more than being a mother. My sister is in her late 60s, a retired teacher who is a spinster. There is no one for her to care for but she had a fulfilling career and an active retirement.

I did take issue with Age Concerns Christmas campaign a number of years ago. The tag was "One is the saddest number." As I had spent all that year coming to terms with being "'One" instead of "Two" and striving to be positive and convince myself that life was still worth living I thought it was totally crass to tell me I was "sad".

Goodness yes, Eglantine21. That is appalling, not to mention nonsense.

I have filled many roles over my lifetime but like izzywizzy I am now defined by one word = carer. Although DH and I have been quizzed about his background and interests, (so that they can be encouraged and maintained) no one has shown the slightest interest in who and what I am. When I mentioned that our DD1 had been ill and I had been trying to help her with childcare, etc. I got two responses 1) that I must ensure that DH was shielded from any anxiety about his DD and 2) that I must not overstretch myself, already had a full time job caring for DH.

The advice given is to spend my down time - 1 day a week when DH has 5 hours of 'day care' - attending carers' groups for support and pampering myself with a hairdo or manicure. I spend this precious time doing all the jobs I cannot do with DH in tow - optician's/doctors/lawyers appointments, shopping, etc.

I really have no idea who I am anymore. I know what I am not - no longer a worker in a responsible job, a volunteer, a political activist, no longer a regular Grandchild minder nor much of a mother to my DDs, losing touch with my friends and neighbours by refusing every invitation. I remain a good cook and organic fruit and veg grower - that's about all of ME that is left.

Sorry - been a bad day today

At particular times of our lives, we may identify with one role in particular. I wouldn't hate to think that being a woman has only been about my family, children, grandchildren, loved ones. I had a career I loved and sometimes felt I was in the wrong place all the time. Most women I know who combined work/a career with having a family found themselves stretched and feeling they weren't doing any of their 'jobs' as well as they wanted to.
I do feel that if my husband had died, I would identify most with my lot as a bereaved wife. That would dominate my thoughts and conversation.

Oh Granny23 how difficult for you. You are still all of the things you have been, the fact that you have been swamped and overwhelmed by the role of carer means they are just hidden for now. I hope you can find a way through and that things improve for you. If you are growing your own fruit and veg I am very impressed, the only thing I can grow is weeds. And I'm not a full time carer. I wish you an easier and happier future.

Recognise this one Granny23, though it's in the past for me now.

So sorry to read how difficult things are for you Granny23 . 5 hours a week of "your own time" is hardly any time at all really, so I can imagine where you want to tell them to stick their advice on how you should spend it !

Granny23, its very hard to keep hold of 'yourself' in those circumstances, I know. I haven't any advice I'm afraid, just wanted you to know others understand.

Granny23 I'm so sorry to read just how difficult your life is.
I know it can feel like a thankless job you're doing with hardly any free time.
I think it's great you can grow your fruit and veg and must feel very rewarding when you can then cook with them.
I wish I had some wise words to say as I totally understand your frustration but all I can say is take each day at a time and grab any help should it come your way

There has never been my intention to suggest our roles aes as simple and cut and dried as the OP suggests it that we are defined by anything other than ourselves, but look around - this is called GRANSNET and in the same way that MUMSNET uses the perspective common to the majority, so our perspective on life may inform others where a view is coming from.
And just to turn this on its head perhaps, is it wrong to take a pride in the nurturing of new life, in that continuation of the circle of life and the pivotal role played by wives and mothers in whatever culture?
Don’t knock it, cherish it.

(((hugs))), Granny23. Are you getting help in the house?

Granny23, sorry for not acknowledging your post, we x posted. Our GP surgery asks anyone who has caring responsibilities to register with them as a carer. I've mixed feelings about this because as you point out, it can become the way in which you are defined and identified to the exclusion of the other important parts of life. As for suggesting you use those 5 hours to pamper yourself, I can only think those giving the advice have absolutely no idea what its like to have the responsibilities and pressures you have every other hour of the week.
A friend aged 78 is in a very similar position - his life changed when a good social worker assessed his needs, rather than simply those of his wife. You have a right to an assessment of your own needs, something many district nurses, home carers etc do not realise. I know this may seem like yet another pointless and draining exercise for you but it's worth considering. x

is it wrong to take a pride in the nurturing of new life, in that continuation of the circle of life and the pivotal role played by wives and mothers in whatever culture?
Don’t knock it, cherish it.
Agree with you Maw
I too have been wondering where this sidelining of motherhood in favour of, and emphasis on, roles outside the home, leaves women who through no fault of their own have not had the educational opportunities some of us have had, and spent their working lives in menial, poorly paid jobs.
Isn’t it rather demeaning and condescending to take the position that being a mother and nurturing the next generation is somehow less important and fulfilling than working outside the home?

Usually I find it's the other way about Jane. Those who are wives or mothers or grannies or even all three tend to demean and exclude those who are not.
Often it's not conscious, just an implication that those people don't really have anything worthwhile in their lives. Or nothing of interest anyway.

That does happen too eglantine but it is a separate issue.

My mother stayed at home to care for her children because her own experience was that as the oldest child in her family, it was her job to get her younger brothers and sisters up and ready for school. Her own mother left for work at 5.30am and shifts then were 12 hours. Mum swore we'd never have the responsibility for each other, or come home to an empty, cold house.
Once we were less dependent, she built a life for herself painting, sculpting did an Art degree etc etc. She was a real role model, though I have been a working mother throughout the lives of my children and faced that struggle about fulfilling both roles

I agree. I love being a wife, mother and grandmother - but this is by no means ALL that I am. I have had a successful career in the NHS, and in later life pursued a second (unpaid) career as a priest ... which I absolutely love. Who I 'am' is much more than the sum of my various roles ...

No it isn't janeainsworth it is at the heart of the discussion. If you are not any of the three things , wife, mother or grandmother you are often treated as being less than other women. Hence those not married or in relationships are regarded as 'different', those without children or grandchildren are often excluded or labelled . If women are seen as being more than those three things then all women would be regarded as of value.
As for education, it is something that can last a lifetime and comes in many forms. Taking advantage of opportunities and using them for personal development is something that can offer women new chances in life at all ages. Raising children is important but does it really take a whole lifetime?

My 51 year old sister never married or had children. I would guess if I asked her she would pity me for my life rather than the other way around . She has loads of friends and a VERY full social life and I can't imagine her ever choosing to give that up in favour of motherhood .

I always considered my 'work outside the home' menial or otherwise, to be part of my role/responsibilities as a mother as it was essential to the family finances. There has only been a brief spell in human history when Husband working/Wife at home was the norm for working class folks. Now it is accepted that both parents need paid employment to pay the rent/mortgage and raise a family. This without considering, widows, divorcees, single parents i.e. sole breadwinners in the family.