To think women are more than just wives, mothers and grandmothers.

Personally, when I have all my 3 kids and 5 grandkids all together, the love and pride I feel is immeasurable. That means so much more to me than all I achieved professionally, so if I am defined by being a Mum, it’s fine by me. Now in retirement, I am here if they need me, but also have a very busy life of my own, I travel a lot, and have a full and varied social life. Many young women these days all maintain their independence, successfully juggling a family and a career, more so than when we were young.

Thanks trisha, you put it so much better than I could. All women are of value, whatever their choices or what life has thrown in their path.
Mad ferretlady I might go to church if you were there! I agree we are more than our roles, they are just what we do.
It's when those defining roles go, whether it's relationships, career, status, possessions that we truly know who we are.

I absolutely agree, Trisher. We each have such talent in many areas of our lives. I want to be known as the person who did her all for her family but at the same time, I want to also do it all for myself.

Eglantine21 Wise words.
At the grand old age of 35 I found the new world.
I had been a 'do as you are told child', dutiful to my parents as this was what was expected I went with the flow and became what I believed was a good mother and a stay at home wife dong what was expected of me.
I was a robot.
I say no more other than it took another person to open my eyes to what I could achieve and did.
I have been a dutiful daughter mum and wife but please allow me my own identity.

As as single parent...I did not marry until my son was 24, so therefore I'm very set in my ways. Had always worked and did not know what it was to be a "housewife" and still don't. Both my husband and I worked in the same industry at high level. We are very close, but are both very independent and respect each others lifestyles. I will never be a grandmother, so don't know what that is like either! Having said this I wouldn't knock anyone who is a "housewife" or grandmother. We all follow different paths and its not up for criticism either way.

What a wonderful lot of comments. You are such a great group GNs. So much wisdom, insight, kindness and care. To use a very old phrase "I dips me lid to you all."
I guess it all comes down to that perennial later life personal review. What was it all really about? Personally I have had a good career, 3 lovely kids and 7 grandies. Not so good on the marriage side. There have been moments when it has all come rather unstuck and I've wondered what I did wrong but overall it's good and I love my littlies just so much that at times my heart could just burst. Have had to deal with one with a very serious life threatening illness which utterly devastated me but now all is good. Thank you modern medicine.
I do think that if, overall, you can say that you did your best to live a good life in its broadest sense that is probably the best any of us can do. And we each define a good life in our own way. I love the phrase a friend sometimes uses "we are but two sparks between eternity" and incredibly lucky that we were born at all.

I agree Trisher. I love my family dearly but I also need to be 'me' and to be known as a person in my own right. Luckily I've been able to do this and have the best of both worlds. It could be perhaps of because I'm an only child and with an ill parent [mental health problems] had to learn to be determined! I also try to encourage my female GC to follow their own dreams

Totally agree with you Trisha on this one. I love my family to bits but I don’t live my life through them I have lots of other things that bring me contentment and happiness.My DDS also don’t just see me as mum,nan etc they see me as someone who has a full life outside of the family.

One of the assumptions I find strangest is the idea that doing a paid job makes people more interesting than those who are full-time parents. I have never found this to be remotely true.

I think what Trisher is getting at is that we are individuals with our own thoughts, interests, and talents and ahould not be defined merely by our relationships with others.
For example when I was little I was always Mr X's daughter and later Mr Perkins' wife (my father and my husband both had high profile jobs.) Later again I was little Jonny Perkins' mum and now I'm Freddie's grandma (all names altered!)
When I joind NHR (National Housewife's Register) many years ago I had to inteoduce myself without any reference to my husband or children which was hard as I had young children at the time and was not working! So I had to make reference to where I was born & beought up, what job I had previously done, and my interests.
My career was important but now I'm retired I spend more time on ho bbies , interests and voluntary work than with C and GC (as they live far away) though as others have said my family is more important to me than anything else.
I did find it infuriating when I first moved here to be introduced at various groups as Mr Perkins' wife and tried to keep it quiet for as long as possible as he was fairly well known in the area.

Grandma70s but surely full time mums have their interests and aims as well. It doesn't have to be paid employment that identifies you. I do think other people are sometimes better at doing this than us Brits. I once knew an American who said that in the USA anyone who has attended a creative writing class will immediately call themselves a writer.

I agree with the OP. Each to their own. I love my children dearly, and between their father and I, they were never in ‘child care’ and we were very child centred when they were young. However, I see my career as my major achievement (shock, horror!!!). My grandchildren are lovely and it’s great to see them in visits every 2 or 3 months, but it works well for me that I don’t live nearby, as I would feel obliged to be available for regular babysitting and I’d probably resent it! I know saying that breaks a Grandparent taboo ?

If that’s a taboo, Stella14, I’ll join you in it. I would resent it, too. I’m quite glad I don’t live too close as well. I see so many grandparents basically doing the parents’ job, and getting more and more exhausted. It seems to be taken for granted and not questioned.

Bless you, Trisher........women (even in the 21st century) are only often identified as someone's ( a man's) wife, daughter, sister, mother, step-daughter, grandmother.......the list goes on!

Simply not in their own right. Reading Rachel Johnson's (splendid woman) autobiography was insightful - she bemoaned the fact that she was overwhelmingly known as "Boris Johnsons sister" and went on to rant "as if that's my job!!!!"

Go girl!

I could never agree with the bit in the OP that says 'just wives, mothers and grandmothers'. there is no 'just' about it.

Surely, we do what we do, generally speaking, to the best of our abilities whatever we choose to do. I didn't have work outside the home but I'm not 'just' anyone. I'm me. And, I'm bloody good at it.

I see what you mean but when all's said and done your family are more important than any job, no matter how fulfulling.
I smile politely when I've asked someone about how they are and they go into great detail what their children or GC have done. I want to ask, "but what about you?" I don't push it though as I realise that they don't actually have anything else going on in their lives but don't like to admit it. MIL was like this, she had no interests outside the home and thought that people with hobbies were peculiar. Sad really and very limiting.

I went to university at sixteen and had a five year first career, then six years as a full-time Mum, then ten years in a second career before retraining in my forties for the career I always really wanted and continued into my seventies.

I hope I was of some use in these roles, but why should we have to ever say that our work was more or less important than our roles as Mums and Grannies? (or for that matter as wives, sisters, friends?)

You're right, there is no 'just' about it kitty - arguably the most important job in the world.

At the end of the day you will be remembered mainly by the family you leave behind. I had a good career in the City, I was up early, home late, juggling children (making them self sufficient do they could pretty much look after themselves after school and during school holidays). I wondered what on earth I would do when I retired and every day was a Saturday. Truth is I actually don't do a great deal. My husband became disabled and relies on me quite a lot now. I seem to spend my time on cooking, cleaning, gardening (all my hobbies). But that was then and this is now. Looking back just how important was that job? It took us on wonderful holidays, the children saw much of the world, so that was a good thing. We had nice things but were time poor, so that wasn't so good. I'm conflicted. The girls grew up and seem to quite like me, so that's a good thing. I'd like to think they'd remember all the good times together, not those when I couldn't be there, so I DO want to be remembered as a wife and mother. Nobody's last words should be "I should have spent more time in the office"!

This is a strange OP arguing against something nobody has, to my knowledge postulated.
It’s like saying AIBU to say that black is not white, it is black.
If OP was prompted in her argument by my humble od, let me say that was not what it was about, as perhaps more careful reading might reveal, but also prompted by Shakespeare's Seven Ages of Man whose theme is the cycle or circle of life. Birth, childhood, lover, soldier, justice, “senior citizen”and at the end of his life, facing death
I felt there was room for a female take on this premise, after all, not only boys and young men go “unwillingly to school”or become “young lovers”
My starting point was that there are certain stages in a woman’s life, certain milestones as it were and most of us on GM have experienced those. At this juncture in my life I am perhaps in more contemplative mood than usual.
I too had a successful career as a secondary teacher and HoD but when I retired I did not for a moment kid myself that that was my sole raison d’être. Or indeed that I was not ENTIRELY replaceable and replaced.
But you only have one mum.
What can be more important to the continuance of human life on Earth and to society than the birth of each successive generation and the responsible upbringing of our citizens?
If all that mattered was our professional lives then we would surely be happy to be euthanased instead of a leaving do (and think what THAT would save the country’s finances !)
Life on Earth is dependent on procreation , our legacy might be a painting or work of literature but what lives on is the genes.
Apologies of course if this is way off the mark of what OP intended, but arguments and empty rooms spring to mind.

Ode not od, but perhaps it was (odd)!

trisher I was a teacher and I loved every minute of it but it is nothing to how I feel about being a wife, mother and grandmother, my family is my life. As my daughter told someone who said she must be very proud of her science career she said 'it's what I do, not who I am'.

Not sure if you meant to make me laugh Maw but you did. Especially the bit about being euthanised at the leaving do.
I had no idea this thread came off the back of another. I took it as just a pondering on life, as you do.
I will go and find the poem.

Holly cat, I think sounds as if you do quite a lot now. Cooking, cleaning and gardening is a lot of work and I am glad you enjoy it.
I do think women are supposed to do all that domestic work automatically and enjoy it because it's what we do. And in a way that's true, I get a lot of satisfaction from that role. But I do remember when I worked for 5 hours on a Sunday afternoon how wonderful it was to get a pay cheque! Being a low paid worker is better than being an unpaid slave. Even now I think perhaps I could get a little job doing something to help pay for my grand childrens music lessons.

Good Morning Maw - I'm never sure if it's allowed to mention another thread but I'm glad you did.