carers not doing their job

Is it a “knit and natter” group? We have one at our local library and no one cares if you knit (or sew), it’s the meeting people and natter that they go for.

In the situation you describe, perhaps when refreshments are served you could turn to the carer and say “ I can see you are needed here would you like to sit here while xxxxx has her drink? “ That leaves you out of the group but only while the tea is drunk.

Most busses have a notice saying no food to be eaten but few drivers enforce it. I am frequently overwhelmed by the smell of MacDonalds food when I get a bus from town as there is one right by the bus stop, frequented by passengers just before getting on with their takeaways. Why does it smell so enticing?

Yes of course a black person accompanying a white man would be his paid carer. I mean, how else could it work?

Yes I thought that too Eglantine !!

Oh dear this thread is going from bad to worse, it does seem as if the carer and the group got off to a bad start. Maybe the OP could help them assimilate more next time. As with any group though it does not work for everyone and just because a person has a disability does not mean they want to be part of the group.

are you suggesting that wheelchair users shouldn't take part because the area is"cramped" but if she/he could make it under their own steam they would have been welcome ? Seems a very strange attitude..hope you never find yourself in need of help or in a wheelchair.I must watch out for this attitude as my D in her 30's has just eben told she'll need a wheelchir within months ,lets hope she doesn't meet many people like you!!

It says something about modern life when the poster says ...a wheelchair with a carer got on the bus!

She maybe missed pout the word "user" as I have done myself before now.

"... of course a black person accompanying a white man would be his paid carer. I mean, how else could it work?"

If you made that statement on the basis of colour alone, you could be surprised -they could actually be family! It is not unknown even for twins to have the colour and features of totally different ethnic backgrounds. I'm not saying that this was the case in the instance you mention, and there might have been obvious signs - uniform, for instance - that one was a paid carer, but even so ... Just saying!

"... of course a black person accompanying a white man would be his paid carer. I mean, how else could it work?"

You don't think perhaps that the person who posted this had their tongue firmly in their cheek, MamaCaz?

I would ask the carer to help, in a nice way, and keep on asking. Somebody has planned for the person to go along and have at least some sort of activity, and that person should be facilitating it. It really makes me angry seeing 'carers' who can't be bothered.

some disabled people are just not suited to an environment which is very cramped

Maggiemaybe

"... of course a black person accompanying a white man would be his paid carer. I mean, how else could it work?"

You don't think perhaps that the person who posted this had their tongue firmly in their cheek, MamaCaz?

With hindsight, you could be right, but to be honest it can be very hard to tell sometimes!

Looking back, I see that you are right, Maggiemaybe. My post should have been directed to the person who made the original comment, not to Eglantine's response to it - sorry Eglantine.

The same thing happens with some childminders/nannies who take their charge along to the various toddler groups available. I think they need a break/rest and see the socialisation as a help to both them and the one(s) they have to care for sometimes for long hours without a break.

In case anyone is in doubt I was being ironic. If you could see my family you would know why.
Think your post was very moderate mama caz given that you thought I was serious
It seems to be my day for letting levity get me into trouble.

I have an adult daughter who uses a wheelchair and I am so glad that you OH are not living in her town where she is made most welcome in places however cramped. Yes she does drop food or articles and maybe you don’t realise OH that they have feelings and my daughter is embarrassed when she does it. She has the most wonderful carers but often they have to drop her at a place and then come back later to pick her up as they are pressed for time. What is wrong in helping someone in a wheelchair instead of carer doing it, it makes the person feel more inclusive and why can’t a wheelchair user eat a takeaway on a bus! Others do and throw their rubbish on the floor when they are finished.

The carer shouldn’t be choosing what the person does - it’s up to the person to decide what they want to do. You can’t really compare childminders to carers/PA’s!

People need to realise some disabled people are just not suited to an environment which is very cramped (God help us if there were a fire).

Wow - just wow. I'm really stunned to hear such awful discriminatory attitudes in this day and age.

I do hope OP is not expressing such discriminatory and intolerant opinions as they sound. Perhaps just badly expressed?
Try being at the “pointy end”of taking anybody with a disability anywhere, it is bloody hard, not to say exhausting, so any help, patience and tolerance are very gratefully received!

Well personally I’m all in favour of compulsory euthanasia foe wheelchair users and those unsteady on their feet OP - would make life SO much more comfortable for the rest of you. Happy knitting

eglantine I was agreeing with what I thought was your obvious irony!
maryeliza54 I liked yours too.

OK. I understand the points everyone is making, but essentially the problem seems to be about responsibility. Assuming the knitting group is not held in someone's house, nobody can just set up a group and off it goes. There's legal health and safety requirements to be followed.

The knitting group has to follow the health and safety guidelines for using the space. So if the person in charge of the knitting group has agreed someone in a wheelchair can join, then that person must make sure that the health and safety arrangements are in place to keep the wheelchair user safe (as well as the rest of the group).

The wheelchair lady and her carer need to know what they must do in the event of a fire (or the fire alarm going off). The carer needs to understand she is responsible for getting the lady in the wheelchair out of the building. This needs to be considered for all of the space used by the group, not just for the main room e.g. the toilet, the kitchen, etc.

So the carer has responsibilities and it seems to me that explaining to the carer about these responsibilities is the ideal way to make it clear to her that she can't just daydream the time away.

The knitting group also has to follow the Equality Act. Gone are the days when you can just declare someone in a wheelchair a fire risk and exclude them.

If they have concerns should talk to the person in the wheelchair initially, not her PA. You should always start by assuming capacity. If they are unable to communicate with the person then the PA can assist. I’m not sure why the person in the wheelchair would be a greater risk than the ladies with mobility problems who arrive. If fire is a major concern perhaps the group could run a fire drill.

I’ve lost count of the number of examples I’ve read of in which theatres, football grounds, cinemas, restaurants etc etc fall back on quoting health and safety as a reason for excluding disabled people from attending and participating when really what they mean is that at best they can’t be bothered to sort out making it possible and at worst they just don’t want disabled people around them.

Not so much since the introduction of the DDA (now replaced by the Equality Act). They have a legal duty to make reasonable adjustments. Forcing people to be inclusive does seem to have been more successful than assuming they’ll work out how to be inclusive themselves.

It isn’t just about wheelchair ramps and things though. Can still be very hard with people with (for example) learning disabilities to be accepted or access events etc. Even that is improving with relaxed performances at the theatre/cinema etc.