carers not doing their job

And our shopping centre is having a quiet hour this morning for those with autism/dementia etc. In practice it just means during those sessions people are more tolerant of slightly unusual behaviour (& maybe PA’s carers feel more confident) - and that helps access. Nothing more tedious than being expected to apologise for someone who is doing no harm to anyone except showing some slight unusual behaviours.

Working with adults with learning disabilities I heard more than a few adverse comments when we were out and about. We were once helping people out of a minibus in a pub car park when the landlord came out and said there was no room for us in the pub.
Also had many acts of kindness from the public when there have been difficulties. Everyone has something to offer regardless of their level of disability.

I thought the OP was about a carer not doing her job properly. I didn't read it as being against people in wheelchairs attending. My suspicion is that the carer just took the lady to any free activity she could find. Cynical of me I know but I do know that these carers can be told to just 'take the person into the community' and given no budget for costs.
We see unfortunate people just being wheeled about shopping centres aimlessly because there's nowhere to go. Care in the community?!

There is always ample budget to take out the adults with learning disabilities that I've supported. The problem has been finding something they will enjoy. Often it is just being out and about that they like, rather than being with others, or in a group, or cafe.

Jane10 - people with disabilities - including learning disabilities and even those with limited capacity should be choosing their own activities. Support workers don’t (or shouldn’t) just decide that someone is going to do x on a particular day.

Exactly, nezumi. Often its managers of places that insist you take people out every day, regardless of whether they want to go.

Did the cater knit whilst at the group?

Are you knitting charity items or just your own projects or both?

Was this the first time the carer and her client had come?

If so next time some ground rules re drinks and food and at least one of them must knit even if it is only squares for blankets for wheelchair users.

That should be reported to the CQC if happening Miss-A (who won’t do anything but will take it into consideration when inspecting). It could even be reported to safeguarding as organisational abuse. It should not be happening in this day and age. TBH the problems I have seen tend to be people not getting out enough from residential homes (not enough transport/staffing etc). That tends to be less of a problem in supported living.

at least one of them must knit even if it is only squares for blankets for wheelchair users

Sorry, that made my blood run cold. It is the opposite of inclusive. How about a conversation with the person about what she is hoping to get out of the group.

Supported living was my last workplace, nezumi. I made such a fuss about activities, and it being suitable for each person that I was made activities coordinator.
I loved exploring options for people, and finding things they liked. It was by far my favourite part of the job.

This post is just not about a carer doung her job but also shows the attitude of the person posting it by the language she uses. Knitters had to move and a resonant even had to move seats. Then she was now seated next to me! I had to get involved etc etc. Sorry but the carer brought her client to the group for some social interaction and that’s includes someone making them a cup of coffee or tea, after all in a group you don’t all go and and make your own drinks. This persons who posted needs to learn tolerance.

The carer needs to support the person to integrate with the group, which means getting involved. There is no excuse whatsoever for sitting around like a lemon, leaving other people to deal with the person. Its sheer laziness.

This thread is awful, thank heavens for Nezumi!
I can’t comment only to say ‘high five’ to Colds partner.

Well I am not surprised the OP has not come back.
She posted on a subject she felt strongly about on one particular afternoon, namely a care not doing her job.
The comments made assuming what sort of an uncaring ,unfeeling ,anti disability person she must be,would make me want to run for the hills.
I feel quite upset.

That's where the role of a support worker is so valuable. You can be the 'bridge' between people, and integrate them. If the person can't knit, but enjoys sitting and watching, so be it, what's the harm, as long as you don't expect others to do your job whilst you disengage.

Nezumi you appear to have misunderstood my post. I'm not trying to exclude the lady in the wheelchair. Disability rights legislation means that the space should be suitable for people with disabilities and that often means there is specific guidance for wheelchair users (or anyone with disabilities). The person with the disability should not be disadvantaged, but this sometimes mean that extra measures are necessary to make this possible. Everyone should be aware of the H&S arrangements and it's good practice to have fire drills or at least alarm testing in buildings open to the public.

If there's a problem with the PA, the conversation about H&S with the lady in the wheelchair (and/or her PA) would be the ideal time to cover what is required of the PA to make sure the lady gets the most out her time in the group. Perhaps the PA is required to push the wheelchair, in which case she needs to know she can't just rush out of the building if the alarm goes off. She has to get her client out (without endangering herself). Everybody should have been made aware of the H&S arrangements when the group started or when they joined the group.

With reference to the capability of the lady in the wheelchair, presumably when someone new joins the group a discussion takes place with the lady in charge. It's up to her to decide what skill levels are required to join and what support (if any) is available from the group members. For example, is it a group for people who can already knit, or are beginners welcome and if so, who does the teaching? If the current situation is not working, it's up to the person in charge to deal with the it. Perhaps you need to share your thoughts with the person in charge.

Other posters are right though. There's a lot of reasons why the lady in the wheelchair wants to join the group. The lady in the wheelchair may be there for social aspect and it could be irrelevant whether or not she is able to learn to knit. I understand what you're saying about the age of the person in charge, but it is up to her. Sharing your thoughts might be helpful to her in deciding whether the group is suitable for the lady in the wheelchair and the expectations of support from the PA needs discussing.

There should have been a risk assessment done regarding accessibility and safety. Support workers are trained these days, and risk assessment is mandatory.

I think you have made a good point here. No-one is suggesting that the lady in the wheelchair was at fault, but the carer whose responsibility it was to bring the the lady to the knitting group and attend to her needs failed to do that. Paid or unpaid she had the responsibility for this lady while they where there. Probably this outing was designed to get the lady involved in some social activity ....maybe knitting is,nt her thing but meeting other people was probably the intention here to get her out and about. If they attend again I would point out to her carer when she needs help with something otherwise it will carry on in the same way.

I really am behind the devil's advocate now and also getting away from the OP.
Regarding the social aspect, several people have said the lady in the wheelchair may not be capable of knitting but likes the company and the chat, the same could apply to book group's, said lady is not interested in reading in depth or discussions but likes to listen to the others and enjoys the glass of wine, which I am told is often integral to book group's.
Where does it end?
How many people will be welcomed? They could end up outnumbering the members who do want to knit and discuss books.
Social inclusion is very good up to a point.
Who lays down the rules and however difficult applies them.

oh dear me - sounds like we have some very conservative attitudes here - let me speak up - and down - for carers. Firstly, I care for my 91 year old mother who can no longer leave the house in her wheelchair I am sad to say. I spent my entire career as an academic, and take my caring role seriously, but it is a very hard one - a much, much harder life than that of someone who can enjoy spending time in a knitting group. Secondly, I began 'caring' full-time for my mum before I was 60 and received around £54 a week from the state for doing that - a cleaner doing a full-week's work would have received around £350 a week at that time - see the unfairness? Once I became 60 that amount disappeared as I was of pensionable age - a pension I had worked all my life for. Many, many carers are therefore, unpaid. Those who are employed by agencies receive £8 an hour and that's in London. I assume it's less outside of London. That compares with cleaners who charge £13 an hour as a minimum in London. After this ramble my point is this - carers are the worse-treated employees in the country, and that's the fault of the government - those who need care are largely ignored by conservative thinking and hence, left to struggle through life just hoping that the carers they are assigned are willing to continue wiping their bottoms etc. for a pittance. Those who sit in judgement about the occasional lapse of concentration of the carer and the inconvenience of being placed next to a disabled person who needs some help ... I hope one day you find yourself in need ...

No-one is suggesting that the lady in the wheelchair was at fault, but the carer whose responsibility it was to bring the the lady to the knitting group and attend to her needs failed to do that. Paid or unpaid she had the responsibility for this lady while they where there.

Sorry but that it a bit patronising - nobody is responsible for me when I am out and about in my wheelchair/walker. I make my own decisions and decide when I wish to ask for help. No-one is taking that right away from me or forcing help on me that I haven't asked for and don't want.

These attitudes are one of the reasons why I refuse to use my wheelchair much even though I need it. People make assumptions that you are incapable and talk to DH instead.

Miss Adventure is speaking lots of sense re H&S and the role of the carer. Activities coordinator is such an important role - makes the difference between a meaningful life and not.

Social inclusion is very good up to a point

This sort of statement is outrageous. It’s 2017 - the days of locking people away due to disability have (largely) gone (see the shocking Dispatches programme on St Andrew’s for the shocking exceptions to that). Social inclusion isn’t something that should only happen if it doesn’t inconvenience those without disabilities.

Excellent post Nezumi
I experienced discrimination first hand, when I had to give up my career.. and that was working for an inclusive public body.

Meaningful activities can have a huge, huge impact on a persons wellbeing. That is no different whether they are well, have disabilities, or any other issues. I have never thought 'I'm just a carer'. Its one of the most important jobs, as far as I'm concerned, regardless of the pay. In the 90s I was earning up to 15 pounds an hour, my last job was 7.50 an hour, but my wanting to do the job properly hasn't changed. I'm not unskilled; I have all kinds of certificates, covering every aspect of supporting people, but you can't train somebody who isn't bothered into somebody who is. If you're at work, your job is to advocate on behalf of people who may not be able to do so for themselves.

I was certainly not talking about locking people away, I am outraged by that.
I was talking about the practicalities of the situation and the dynamics of a group which is set up for like minded people with the same interests having to change the dynamics of that group and that interest in the name of "social inclusion"
Do football teams ,swimming clubs , any other sporting clubs have to include people in those clubs who have no ability , just because it is somewhere to take them as was quoted in another post.
I am beyond furious that my posts have been taken this way.
I am a carer for my H who has Alzheimer's not some
NIMBY not wanting my precious little group spoiled.