Is this out of order?

unfair but i guess if they had made the child she would have probably screamed place down

Children don’t travel for free in my area LiltingLyrics whereas pensioners do . Perhaps it’s this “well my child has paid” mentality that has caused this lack of respect.

Perhaps you should have offered to sit on the mother's lap instead!

All that needs explaining is, ' come on, you are sitting on my knee now so that the lady/gentleman can sit down' and you could add 'now you can see better out of the window!'.

Of course not - no-one has said so either. In ths case however, we are talking about a toddler and hs mum not insisting he sits on her lap to make space -and as others have said, it should not need a pre explanation, by mum or gran.

I think providing it is safe then having a toddler on your lap would be ok to allow someone who is infirm or elderly or a pregnant woman to sit down. As a GM to a 2 year old toddler they don't always do as they are told but normally my DGD will do if things are explained to her.

I am not sure I like the tarnishing of young parents though and yes bringing up children has changed over the years, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse but there are also some very rude and entitled old people. I saw an elderly man in our local supermarket not willing to wait until a young mum and her child moved away from the aisle to let him pass and he brandished his walking stick and swore at the mum. Being old does not give anyone carte blanche to act like an idiot.

When I was a child I was always expected to let adults sit down now I'm nearer 70 than 60 I still have to stand! I've even seen adults standing so their own child can sit down! I don't know if they think children are safer sitting down but when they let them stand on or infront of their seat they would be better off (and let's be honest) would enjoy standing
and holding on near their sitting adult.

With all the nanny state going on please excuse the pun, parents schools etc are being told what to say and do with kids but it goes too far. The parent should have taken control. On flip side nanny state says teachers can't mark school work mistakes with red ink. They can't have competitive sports events because it may damage mentally the child. I wonder if this patent has seen that giving children their complete own voice gives them strength for want of better word.

Very well saids Bluegal, you are so right.

When my daughter was small. I always popped her into my lap if there were people standing. One morning we stopped near a block of wardened flats and several elderly people with obvious mobility problems climbed aboard. Sitting in front of us was another woman with a small child. Suddenly, to my horror, my daughter said loudly, “Look at that naughty little girl sitting on a seat instead of on her mummy’s lap while old people are standing,”.
She did not get a round of applause but lots of nods and smiles. It also prompted some able-bodied people to give up their seats.

Interesting journey this morning. Sitting across from me was a young mother and her child, girl about 3. I put DGS on my knee when there were no other seats and a woman with a little girl sat next to me with girl on her knee. Young mother was posting on phone, she eventually looked around and did pull her child closer to her so someone could have the seat, but it was almost as if she had never thought of doing it until she saw the woman next to me and me. I do wonder if manners just haven't been taught to some of todays' parents, and if so is it our generation who are to blame?

My children would have been picked up and put on my lap, no way would I have asked the child where they wanted to sit, when there were older people standing. Some parents these days don't have a clue.

A parent can put child on lap or if standing, hold firmly to said child between legs.

Blencathra, yes you can, squeeze on the end of the seat and gently push!

All sorts of people can lurch and fall on a bus, anyone, not just children. My friend, 78, fell on the bus last year as there was no seat... she tripped and one leg went forwards, and aa the femur broke, the other went backwards. The pain was excruciating, and as she has osteoporosis, she has not recovered at all. There were quite a few teenagers on the bus ... none gave her a seat.

Toddlers are safer being held on a lap. My three yr old DGS is not very safe on a seat they usually can't sit still very still. or be relied on to hold on.

Why have all parents 'these days' been dragged into this?
I absolutely agree that the child should of been picked up and sat on her knee? And I know alot of parents who would and do, do the same with their children.

I have had multiple incidents with people alot older than me who were rude, selfish and showed no common courtesy at all towards me and my baby.
Is that bad parenting?

Some people are just idiots. Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

A lot of parents just do not want to use the word 'no' to their children. I don't know why they think that no boundaries and free reign for ill manners is going to produce a happy and likeable child. More likely a child who is disliked by most and who will be unhappy as a result.

I agree with bluegal, children aren’t learning any more now than they were 60 years ago, in fact they seem to be learning less, common courtesy for one thing. No you don’t have to explain every mortal thing, a child should be brought up to take notice of the parents without question.

The fact that the child hadn’t paid is irrelevant. It should have been made to sit on the parent’s lap as a matter of courtesy. I really don’t see why the child should have been given a choice. When i was young, I automatically either stood up or sat on my mums lap if anyadult was standing. These days it’s as though parents are frightened of upsetting their children.

Sennelier1: Has the world changed so much that common courtesy doesn't exist anymore? From time began, children only learn from example. If parents can't give them that example (for whatever reason) how do they get the 'chance to learn' please tell us?

I disagree with you that the world has changed and children now are being bombarded with lots of new knowledge. ALL children, since time began, are bombarded with new knowledge...that's what growing up entails (knowledge as it as at the time). One thing that should never alter is common courtesy so I don't understand what exactly you are saying? Yes, parents need to teach and in the case of OP and many other cases the parents are turning a blind eye to 'keep the peace'

Dear friends, I would like you'll to stop assuming our youngsters are without feeling or education. The world has,changed, and our young ones are being bombarded with a lot of new,knowledhe etc...Please,give them a chance to learn? Why not politely ask, explain, refer to their own family? Yes, I think in that situation I would take my child/grandchild on my lap and explain why. Of course they say no if you ask them, they don't understand why, maybe think your over-protecting or something. it's normal children don't realise this of their own, so we should teach them, no?

Some parents today are useless and they are letting their children down big time. You are supposed to teach and guide them, not let them tell you what they want to do.

You can speak to the mother, but if she refuses there is nothing you can do.

Just another example of entitled parents thinking that their children can do no wrong. But then the parents think that they are special and the world owes them a living

JustALaugh - I totally agree with your sentiments. I think younger parents give their children too much of a choice these days without actually realising their child/children cannot possible make a positive and constructive decision. Yes it's nice to be polite to your children and let them 'think' they are involved in a decision making process but at the end of the day it's the parent who, without doubt, and especially in this instance make the right and appropriate decision.