Moaning Leavers, an explanation

In 2016, 17 million voted to leave out of a population of more than 65 million, many of whom ( more than 3 million) were taxpayers but disenfranchised because they were EU citizens living in this country for many years. So Leave won by a narrow majority.

The leave campaigners like to say "we all knew what we were voting for". The truth is that none of them knew what they were voting for and they don't know even now. The implications of a leave vote should have been explained in detail before the referendum, instead of which we were fed lies. Not just the lie on the bus, but many, many lies.

You may be one of these leave voters who thought about, the NI border, the Single Market, the Customs Union, the fact that (according to JRM) none of us will be better off by leaving for the next fifty years (except of course for a small number of multi-millionaires like him), but surely you have to recognise that there were a substantial number of people who were fooled into voting leave by the relentless lying propaganda of the rightwing tabloids and the shady operators who manipulated opinion on social media.

Good grief, some of you really are dim.
For those that are ‘hard of thinking’, the ‘thick rascist’ comment was because some posters genuinely seem to believe that Brexit could easily be achieved if only TM was demonstrably more patriotic.
Unfortunately, it appears that a few far right (aka Tommy Robinson supporters) have infiltrated Gransnet.

Grandad1943
Why would the Czech Republic and Poland bite the hand that feeds them.
Since joining in 2004:
The Czech Republic has received €22,848 million above what it has paid in
Poland has received €83,148 million above what it has paid in

Luckygirl - your comments are insulting. ‘If we confine ourselves to insulting them, how can we begin to understand their lives and reasoning.’

Over 17 million people voted to leave the EU, you make us sound like ALIENS. I for one will never understand why anyone with a functioning brain cell would vote to stay in such a corrupt institution.

Crystaltips No one has a Crystal Ball to know what it actually be like 'on the other side'. There is no surety to your assertion that everything promised will not come to pass.
But, would austerity have ended whilst in the EU, are public services improving whilst we remain?
Has a free trade agreement been taken off the table.
What we can probably be assured of is that we will be in a better place than the rest of the EU when it implodes.

And they wonder why we think Leavers are a bunch of thick rascists?
That remark shows a complete lack of insight into how other people may think or why some voted as they did.
In fact, it shows an astonishing degree of thickness.

Not everyone who Voted leave wanted a hard no deal Brexit which is what looks like happening. Many thought there would be more money for public services, we would still be able to get free trade with the EU, that workers would be better off, there would be an end to austerity, that agreeing a trade deal would be quick and easy. All these things were promised by some sections of the leave campaign. Now it looks like most of these things won’t be happening anytime soon. Even Farage and Rees M admit benefits for ordinary folk will be a long time coming. The Tory party in fighting highlights the unpleasant divisions this whole fiasco is causing.

Good posts Joelsnan and actually T May should be visiting every country in the EU for this same purpose ( granted 27 is a lot of countries.)
The countries in Eastern Europe have a lot to lose by us coming out.

Craicon
And they wonder why we think Leavers are a bunch of thick rascists? ??‍♀️

I sincerely hope you are doing yourself a disservice with this comment.

Grandad1943 Sat 04-Aug-18 11:56:
I , along with the rest of us on this site are not party to the content of TM's discussions. It is all surmise, however, my assumption of her visit to Poland and Czech Republic was to reiterate the vast amount of trade and manpower that has occurred between our countries in recent years. Failure to agree a deal acceptable to both sides would probably be far worse for these countries.
Whether they recognise this or are too bothered about losing EU subsidies and having to pay more when UK contributions and free movement ends is for them to decide.

She could be the most patriotic person on this earth, , it doesn't automatically make her able to negotiate a deal with people who don't want any of the things she can offer in return. That takes a whole lot of other attributes too, some of which are distinctly UNpatriotic.

There is a line where patriotism becomes jingoism (change " We don't want to fight but by jingo, if we do . ." to "I don't want to threaten to nuke all your EU capitals to make you agree with me but by jingo if I do . . ."

Craicon - you have just proved my point as well, to be patriotic is racist apparently. A lot of people share your views unfortunately.

No such person exists at this present time.
Perhaps there should be a temporary coalition government until this sorry mess is sorted out.

And they wonder why we think Leavers are a bunch of thick rascists?

That's a very insulting remark, Craicon

From 1939 until 1945 Britain was instrumental in saving Europe from its lack of forethought and preparation.

It would seem now in 2018 that Britain is looking to those same countries to save us from our lack of forethought and preparation.

The reason I dithered over voting Leave was because I was unhappy about supporting anything headed by Gove, Boris and the token woman. (whoever she was) I did vote Leave in the end but for my own reasons and nothing to do with any rubbish written on the side of a bus.

I was disgusted when I read that Gove had gone to bed and had to be roused by his wife because reporters were on the doorstep. He clearly would have been much happier if Remain had won. The way he and Boris behaved in the aftermath was shameful.

TM is doing the best she can in the circumstances. There's no magic wand.

OMG! TM’s failure to secure a good deal is down to her not being patriotic enough. Of course, it is.

And they wonder why we think Leavers are a bunch of thick rascists? ??‍♀️

Sorry I don’t agree. There is nothing wrong with being patriotic- it seems to be a dirty word these days..... how ridiculous is that! Your reference to the 30s proves my point!

Poppyred, David Cameron did not try to negotiate a better deal with the European Union, he requested that the EU give Britain a better deal while at the same time assuring them that we would not vote to leave.

Therefore, the EU did not give Britain a better deal as after all they had been assured by offering nothing, nothing would happen.

It was just a simple logic to them, and the first Britains many blunders in this whole sad saga.

That was not the point. Poppy your assumption that we need a strong patriot sounds awfully like views our parents generation heard in the 30’s.

DC had his chance to negotiate a better deal and failed miserably- I don’t think anyone can win against them, they have too much to lose - pigs and trough comes to mind. It’s no wonder we voted out!

Don’t call me silly MawBroon! Why would anyone want to stay in the most corrupt set up that ever was, headed by a drunk and bleeding us dry whilst laughing in our faces!

I think that we should ask why there were so many people who voted to leave - they can't all be thick idiots as many posts imply. If we just confine ourselves to insulting them, how can we begin to understand their lives and their reasoning?

Some people had good reason to fear greater immigration. The net benefit to the country has passed them by, and no-one in power seems to care. If you are an unskilled worker then you do have reason to fear for your job.

Joelsnan, in regard to your post @ 11:44 today, then yes Poland and the Czech Republic do gain much from their membership of the EU.

However, that begs the question, why did Theresa May go to those countries looking for support on Britains position in regard to leaving the EU.

I believe her actions in going just demonstrates how ill thought out, confused and weak Britains position has now become in these negotiations

Oh don’t be silly Poppy career politicians like BoJo, JRM Farage , Gove et al are no higher-principled than any body else in parliament - not that it would be hard in some cases.
Although I could be persuaded that there are some very principled men and women on the back benches on both sides.