Would you arrive empty handed?

Ah SHW perhaps I was not clear. We generally alternate Christmases , one year it is a Broon year and the other year the DDs would normally be with their PILs.
Last year when Paw died put it out of kilter and DD 1 had everybody (including staying over) at hers, a mammoth undertaking. She has a demanding job, children and enough on her plate so there as no question of a repeat this year!
One DD and her DH are indeed hosting Christmas Day for the SILS Bil etc as well as her husband’s parents. Another DD and her DH will be with his parents and the eldest DD and family will be here.
Then I offered to have everybody who wants to to be here on Boxing Day.
I <whisper> quite like spreadsheets, some may call that micromanaging, I call it being organised
But no, I will not be “organising “ anything else in the way of anniversaries etc except between the DDs and their families and myself. They are more than happy to do their share and we are good at delegating!
This is now moving on to the topic of “Who goes where” at Christmas which is a whole new minefield is it not? ? ?

On a public forum, Lynne59, we are all entitled to state our opinion, and others are entitled to disagree. What we cannot do is order others to be quiet.

I wasn’t the only one to think that you were advising Maw to cut off her relatives.

In my book they should have brought a small present (Mitbringsel, known in Denmark as a gift for the hostess, værtindegave) flowers for you on this sad anniversary and either flowers, a wreath or the candles in a little windproof casing sold for All Souls' Day to put on or at the grave.

It is also extremely odd behaviour not to mention the departed when visiting his grave on the anniversary of his death. In charity, I suppose they may have been afraid of breaking down and crying, but if they had you would have known they were sad and not felt so alone in the world.

I suppose it is a case of "least said, soonest mended" but I hope it helps to know that we all think you are in the right, Maw, and they in the wrong.

So sorry the visit didn't go as expected. Is it possible one of the siblings had a scheduling conflict to overcome? That might explain a last minute confirmation and why they came unprepared. But no matter....look at the positive. They're family and what matters most is that they came.

I should add, that I'm in no way excusing them for coming empty handed......only giving an explanation.

I agree about not arriving empty handed - never do this but have become increasing aware that it is less and less the norm. I am sorry that they have upset you. Having had a bereavement this year (don’t want to detail), I have “felt” everything more ie more sadness, more impatience, sometimes even more tolerance and been in floods of tears at good news. I worry that perhaps occasionally I have not behaved “as expected” by my nearest and dearest. Did each sibling think the other would provide; did they all drive back saying - “I thought YOU would have brought flowers ...”? I am glad you feel a corner has been turned and at least they did all turn up and bring themselves. I’d be tempted to text each and thank them profusely for their company on a sad day because I am sure that it did make a difference to have their company and I’d put a value on their company over everything. After all, if they had sent flowers for you to take alone that would have been sad. Perhaps overlook their carelessness and maybe one or all of them will turn up again same time, same place next year. (You can tell how I guilt trip my DC.).

Oh Willa you gave me a genuine “laugh out loud “ there!
No, they are just vague!

I agree with you Maw but I'm afraid that people seem to have forgotten how to say thank you, dare I say, 'these days'. I was brought up to do so but even family members (I'm looking at you DS) seem to think that 'it's family so it doesn't matter' - yes, it does matter.

You are quite correct.But over the years I have noticed a lot of people avoid graveyards and discussing death,makes them think of their own mortality,maybe they dreaded going and only came to be polite to you,only a thought.
I'm constantly amazed at how people don't phone,write or email after visits.You sound very thoughtful.

MAW Thoughtless actions by your family. You mention they are viewed as 'eccentric' but are they just very 'egocentric'! Hurtful at such an emotional time. Good job there was a "good egg" amongst them xx

Sheer bad manners & no excuse for it being family.
I must admit we don't do flowers as all my family were cremated & have never visited as all over the country but I would not think of going for dinner without taking wine and/or flowers.
I guess it takes all sorts- just appreciate that you know the way things are done & maybe they just don;'t!

Oh dear, I don't even think of taking something if we go to dinner within our family, it's something we have never done. We r a large family, and no one brings anything to ours when they come. I guess it's something not ever done in the past in our families. If we were invited to friends or colleagues houses then yes I guess I would take either wine/chocs/flowers but as that is a rare event I can't remember if I ever did! BUT I would always say thank u very much for the lunch/dinner etc. Again not sure about flowers for the grave, as it was only a year ago then yes I probably would.

"Years and years ago I had an absolute houseful over Christmas, MIL 2 SILs, BIL plus his then wife, Niece and her friend from Brazil, all staying and after they had gone MIL was the only one to drop me a note to say thank you"

I'm sorry you feel hurt, but given everything you have told us I can't think why you are surprised! (Unless "years and years ago" you gave some indication that you expected rather more than tacit appreciation of your hospitality in future?)

Disgracefully and appalling rude all round! I am totally with you. Now smile and let it go if you can.

Sorry not to go with the flow! I think that we have to be careful not to put too much weight on gestures. It is easy to buy a box of chocs or a bunch of flowers, without really meaning anything by it. I think that the more telling thing in your situation was the lack of emotion & empathy, on an important anniversary. Something isn't right there but it's got nothing to do with manners. I think that you just have to accept that they are different from you & your family and not allow it to upset you. All the best for the future.

I think it was thoughtless on their part, particularly to the memory of paw which is probably what hurt the most.
Then again, people can be thoughtless, which is all the more apparent after bereavement. (for me, anyway)
I'm glad you've turned the corner, its not worth getting upset about enough to keep thinking about.

Bah! That sentence made no sense, but I knew what I meant!

They must have realized how difficult the day would be for you and your dd so not to even bring flowers for the grave is quite shocking. I could easily forgive no small gift for me, even though bad manners, but no flowers for grave I would find that hard to forgive. We care Maw.

Just point of detail newnanny
DD had gone home after spending Saturday afternoon and night here. Actually not such a sad day by that point, I had Friday and Saturday with the girls to share our sadness.
And gillhodge they are my family and have been since DH and I married in 1970!
Seakay No I suppose I had just hoped that their social skills might have been honed over the last 20 years.
Anyway, thank you for your support.

Maggiemaybe.... get off your high horse for a bit, you're sounding a bit pious

I had no idea people found gifts and flowers so important. When people visit me I want to see the people, and I wouldn’t care, or notice, if they arrived ‘empty handed’. I certainly wouldn’t expect them to bring anything. I’ve found this thread really surprising.

I do expect thanks, preferably written, if anyone stays overnight. Thanks for a meal, too, but spoken words will do for that.

So readymeals the anniversary of the death of a darling husband and a dear brother is not an occasion in your eyes? To me they were very thoughtless on a special weekend like that.

Maggiemaybe why don’t you read the grammar of Lynne59s post! Lynne said that’s what she would do, not for Mawbroon to do it? As for lonely people out there I hope Lynne59 is not lonely and if she is SHAME on you.

Oh calm down!
I didn’t take offence but the formula “If it were me I would do....” is both a recognised way of recommending a course of action as well as a personal statement.
There is no need for anybody to get snippy or say “Shame on you” etc
Can we not please discuss without recourse to personal insults?

HERE HERE Granma70s and Lynne59 go girls totally agree with you both, yes pious is the word.Materialistic people are best left to they’re own company.