Gransnet forums


CIS women

(111 Posts)
TerriBull Sun 24-Nov-19 10:04:18

I've been listening to Jo Swinson being interviewed by Andrew Marr, the subject of trans rights came up. She used the CIS pronoun several times to differentiate between trans women and women per se. Most of the wider public are not aware what CIS means, a friend of mine had to complete a form at work where she was asked to classify herself, several options "CIS" being one of them, she had to seek clarification as she had no idea whether she was one or not confused Why is the word woman not an adequate enough description to the majority of the female population who will remain in the sex they were assigned at birth?

TerriBull Sun 24-Nov-19 13:44:49

I don't think it's sexist MawB, given I've seen such statements aimed at so called "Terfs" "some women have penises get over it" whilst the word "bollocks" wasn't included, I suppose one could assume those ladies still had their balls with their other dangly bit, so I'm thinking bollocks shouldn't just apply to men anymore, or at least that's what we've been told.

Where's bearded Dave who identifies as a woman between 6 am and 6 pm when you need a bit of clarification!

BlueBelle Sun 24-Nov-19 13:46:11

Now I m lost, what the heck’s terf I must live in a very boring part of the world not only have I never come across anybody telling me off for saying he or she but I ve never been called Cis or terf
I have been called a snowflake though does that count ?

TerriBull Sun 24-Nov-19 13:54:03

Mu understanding of the term is this:

TERF an acronym for Trans exclusive reactionary feminist, a prejorative expression often used against lesbians because they don't regard transwomen as prospective sexual partners. Also used against women who have concerns about those identifying as women using female only spaces.

TerriBull Sun 24-Nov-19 13:54:39

Mu My

Wheniwasyourage Sun 24-Nov-19 15:09:53

I believe that on Mumsnet, where they are often more forthright than we are on GN, there are those who would turn the term TERF back on those who use it as TerriBull has defined it. They translate it as (I think this is accurate, but if not, it comes to much the same thing) Trying to Explain Reality to F***wits. They are even more scathing than most of us are about being expected to describe ourselves as "cis-women", and good luck to them!

TerriBull Sun 24-Nov-19 16:08:07

prejorative pejorative.

I can honestly say if I hadn't gone on to some of the MN threads, I wouldn't be familiar with the terms TERF or CIS, and I still think that applies to most of society. I think some of the changes that will affect women are insidious insomuch as they may well not be aware of them until they find themselves being fitted for a bra in say Marks and Spencers and find a man in the next cubicle. Most men of course would be as equally embarrassed as indeed the women/girls would be should they find themselves in that position and I have no doubt men in general would do their upmost to avoid such an encounter. There are of course a minority of a predatory nature, given we unfortunately now live in the age of "upskirting" and the like who may well exploit such a situation. It's all very well retaileres saying they will deal with any untoward behaviour should it occur, by that time it could well be too late and the damage will have been done.

pinkquartz Sun 24-Nov-19 18:22:22

On mumsnet is a thread where women are boycotting M&S because of the Mixed gender changing rooms....or to be more accurate because M&S have taken away Female only Changing Rooms.

it would be good if more women would join in as money is th e onlything a business listens to.

Many have tried to write or email M&S but they are always ignored with just a bland justification.
M&S are saying that if we object to a Mixed changing room then we the problem for being too narrowminded.

Not the men who fetishize wearing women's clothes especially underwear. They will literally get off on going into the Changing room trying on lingerie and then well use your imagination.
Stuff like this has been put on twitter and other web places so it is all accounted for.

M&S could have added a third space for Mixed but have chosen not to.

Doodledog Sun 24-Nov-19 20:31:37

M&S are saying that if we object to a Mixed changing room then we the problem for being too narrowminded.

Yes, this is the same sort of gaslighting that makes assumptions of bigotry etc about those who question the agenda. It's insidious and messed up, but it seems to be gaining ground.

lemongrove Sun 24-Nov-19 21:00:04

Terri I refused to watch her on Andrew Marr ( recorded it so I could fast forward when needed.)
We are not cis anything, we are women, and to hear a woman spouting all the claptrap surrounding trans ( and self identifying) was dismal in the extreme.

BlueBelle Sun 24-Nov-19 21:33:33

Well people can vote with their feet and show marks what they want and what they don’t want

GagaJo Sun 24-Nov-19 22:22:50

We can scream and shout all we like, BUT we are not the future.

Society/culture/language changes. Our day has been and gone. The more we resist change, the less relevant we are.

Social movements ebb and flow. Some flow directly into the next one. Gay rights/feminism/queer theory/trans theory.

I like how inclusive society is becoming. It's still just people, with less people left out or marginalised.

purplepatch Sun 24-Nov-19 22:25:36

TerriBull It shows how far this insidious TRA movement is gaining traction in day to day discoure that you referred in your original post to sex "assigned" at birth. That is a TRA term.

Sex is not "assigned" or at least it wasn't till the TRAs led the agenda. Sex was "recorded" or "observed".

Assigned, along with "'cis" should be kicked into touch.

Galaxy Sun 24-Nov-19 22:40:44

Many gay people dont agree with you on that gagajo which is why a new organisation has been formed to focus on the needs of lgb people. They believe that many of the theories and language around the trans debate are harmful to gay people in particular lesbians.

GagaJo Sun 24-Nov-19 22:42:26

Hmmm, I worked on a lesbian and gay helpline for years. None of my friends left from those days feel that way.

There are always minorities that resist change. But it's inevitable.

pinkquartz Sun 24-Nov-19 22:57:38

Our grandchildren are the future.....and they are not all going to go meekly along with trans theory just cos it is on trend atm

It is not inevitable that women are to be wiped out by language
I will not be called a bloody cis. Think of all the trauma many of us women go through.
painful period, childbirth and menopause and then some young person tells us what we are going to be called!
I don't think so.
I am holding back on what I say and my language here but most women will not go along with this and neither will their partners and families.
the minority are not going to push through the rest of us.
And tell me I am narrow minded is boll***s so don't bother.

GagaJo Sun 24-Nov-19 23:09:48

I brought my daughter up to embrace inclusivity and for all of our differences, she embraces it. My grandson will grow up the same way.

Race, colour, creed, gender, sexual preference. All human. All equal.

Galaxy Sun 24-Nov-19 23:12:41

You might want to check it out then gagajo,founded by simon fanshawe, one of the original founders of stonewall. You might want to read the stonewall twitter feed and see the angry responses from lesbians and gay men.
Maybe look at the whistleblowing going on from professionals within the tavistock clinic who are raising serious concerns about transitioning among young people.

MawB Sun 24-Nov-19 23:17:26

It is not inevitable that women are to be wiped out by language
Hear hear - and to the rest of it!

GagaJo Sun 24-Nov-19 23:22:18

I checked it out after your first comment. Only to find that they had hundreds of complaints about their trans exclusionary POV.

There is a Gransnet member agenda to oppose a modern movement designed to support vulnerable people. No attempt to understand or see the issue from the perspective of the suffering of others. It is a very unattractive attitude and is one of the reasons why younger people dismiss the opinions of the elderly, because they see us as unable to keep up with 'the times'.

To be clear, I am NOT saying we have to support something just because it is new. But equally, it is not a coincidence that a forum for elderly people is very anti something that is new and unfamiliar to them.

pinkquartz Sun 24-Nov-19 23:22:31


I have five grandchildren. all different.

You cannot possibly know how a young person will turn out....if they have their own mind.

I am not anti trans but i will not be told by trans theorists what i am to be called.

We are a very open minded family....I will not give details on here...but you cannot call me names so don't bother.
All are equal and all different .
I notice you didn't mention disability though ...are we left out usual then.

GagaJo Sun 24-Nov-19 23:28:33

No one is calling anyone names pinkquartz. That would totally negative my call for inclusivity, don't you think?

Apologies, I missed that group off. I do of course, include people of all physical abilities. To fail to do so would completely go against my world view.

GagaJo Sun 24-Nov-19 23:29:07

Not negative, negate. Typo.

Galaxy Sun 24-Nov-19 23:29:45

So you imagine all the people on the stonewall Twitter feed are elderly? Any thread on the stonewall Twitter (not the new organisation) that discusses trans issues has post after post voicing concerns.What are you talking about. Its not a gransnet agenda, crikey you should have a look st mumsnet if you think that. The reason it is raised on both these forums is because they are predominantly female forums and this impacts on womens rights.

GagaJo Sun 24-Nov-19 23:32:04

But I disagree. You CAN tell somewhat how a young person will turn out.

Racist children come from racist families. Education devaluing children come from families that do not value education. Bigotry is learned behaviour.

We are currently teaching my very boisterous, loud grandson about kindness to animals. There is NO way he is going to get away with growing up being unkind to animals.

pinkquartz Sun 24-Nov-19 23:34:36


I am not all that old and I have lived a very open minded life and I do not believe that people oppose ideas just because they are new. Even if you see it that way.

Look I don't care if a person decides to live their life as if of the opposite sex tot heir birth but ther is also a reality that we women share. And you cannot deny this though you may try to.

Periods, childbirth, fear of pregnancy, fear of not having children, menopause are all experiences women share. If someone is outside that experience then do not know what it is like.
these experiences make us women. Not dresses hair and make up.

You can live that way and I have no opposition.
I have had transgender friends. Now I live a very different life thanks to disability and so I do not socialize in the same ways.

Do you really believe that on Gransnet is an agenda to oppose new ideas?

I find it offensive that you think all elderly people as unable to embrace new ideas...isn't that very discriminatory of you?
Being older is different to being young for sure but please stop dissing people just because they have wrinkles and years on them

Shouldn't you be more open minded and what do you know about other people's suffering?