To Believe the British Girl in Cyprus Version of Events

We just don't know.

That's the awful truth

I feel desperately sad for women in this sort of situation

It's so difficult to prove in many cases.

Sorry, M0nica's post was the fourth on the thread.
Gagajo also mentioned that in her post too.

Swabs were taken, Baggs

Yes, I know, I’ve mentioned them previously. This latest mention was a reply to a general question about procedure.

That's the police, and the authorities. David said where the woman had been deliberately negligent.

Sorry. Hasty post.

In that case, galaxy, I misunderstood your question. I'll check out davidhs comments.

Thanks baggs. I wasnt really asking you to explain it rather the person who said it

there are circumstances that the woman has been deliberately negligent or vexatious that I would vote [the man/men] innocent

I've certainly read of cases where the woman's legal team were negligent in the sense of not providing the defence of the accused with evidence that would prove his innocence.

Is that what you meant, davidhs?

In the cases where evidence was withheld it was social media messages that was evidence of the woman’s character and lifestyle. That sort of information does influence juries and in a marginal case could easily change the verdict

Cyprus apparently states that its justice system is based on the British justice system.

However, perhaps they have not kept up to date with changes made in, eg the Criminal Justice Act of 2003.

That sort of evidence is only allowed in a rape trial at the discretion of the judge Davidhs
.^ However, there are rules about inappropriate cross-examination and particularly questioning about a victim's previous sexual behaviour. This type of questioning can only take place with the permission of the judge. We will ensure that the prosecuting lawyer is active in making appropriate objections to such questioning.^
We will also object to allegations about the character or demeanour of the victim which are irrelevant to the issues in the case.
^Rape victims may be undertaking or considering undertaking pre-trial therapy to help them recover from their experiences.
The best interests of the victim are paramount and men or women who have been raped should not feel reluctant to seek professional assistance.^
It doesn't matter how someone has behaved everyone has the right to say "No".

In the Cyprus case police questioning led to a retraction, this is part of testing the accusers resolve to go through with a prosecution. Maybe that was unfair, if it had not happened the police would have to decide wether to charge the men. The last thing they want is for a court case to fail because the woman breaks down.

In court the defense lawyers would interrogate the woman cruelly, the parents of the men don’t want to see their sons branded rapists so they will fight for them.

I am surprised that a conviction for false accusation was made in this case I don’t recall it happening in the UK. Maybe Greek law is different in that respect, false accusation being held more serious.

You are correct Trisher “at the judges discretion”, everything is at the judges discretion and still the conviction rate is very low, proving beyond reasonable doubt is very difficult

Which is why jury trials just arent working for women. I think the answer is judges with specialist training. People who understand that lifestyle is no indicator whether a woman has been raped or not.

"People who understand that lifestyle is no indicator whether a woman has been raped or not" Indeed I agree Galaxy, have not prostitutes been raped? anyone, irrespective of lifestyle has the right to say no.

Davidhs really doesn't understand so if he is typical of people siting on juries we do need to get rid of them.
"At the judges' discretion" by the way Davidhs means that the evidence must be relevant and concerned with the case in question and not something completely unrelated that the woman did on a night out or other occasion.
As for In the Cyprus case police questioning led to a retraction, this is part of testing the accusers resolve to go through with a prosecution. No it isn't! this is bullying an already traumatised girl who may need help and counselling. And it isn't and hasn't been common practice in this country for years. Police are not allowed to question anyone for 8 hours without recording it and without them having legal council. As for the 'retraction' most experts have said the language is that of someone for whom English is a second language. This is a girl who had a bursary to go to University an educated articulate woman. she simply didn't write it.

And women like you Trisher are even worse because you believe that all women are innocent and all men are automatically guilty. At least I am willing to listen to the evidence and decide along with others guilt or innocence

Based on their lifestyle? I think it might be useful to listen to women in this instance. Under no circumstances would I report a rape or assault. One of the reasons for that are the views like the ones you have expressed on this thread.

trisher did not say that, Davidhs

She has highlighted the irregularities in this case, based on what would happen here. Cyprus claims it follows the system of justice of the UK but clearly in this case it did not and correct procedures were not followed.

Trisher is exactly right!

I think Davidhs you may have problem with outspoken and strong women. You have constantly attributed to me things I haven't said. Now I could if I wished report your posts and get them removed. But actually I prefer to leave them so others can see the neanderthal attitudes which still exist.

Trisher, I don’t have a problem about challenging bias, wherever it comes from, you yourself have called on women to unite for more justice as you see it. Some of the verdicts are going to be wrong in any trial system but they are not all going to be wrong. How many of the innocent would you want convicted.
You have 3 sons you would want justice for them as well. I have 3 daughters and 8 grandchildren I would want justice for all of them too.

Then stop trying to call people names, accept that the woman's behaviour has nothing to do with her right to say 'no' and that men need to know that all sex must be consensual. The law in Cyprus has not behaved well and the judicial system has let this girl down and made her more of a victim.

trisher as a matter of note, I am sure there are many decent men who have been horrified by this case, do not think that the correct procedures have been followed and think the young men do have a case to answer.
Those in my family think that, anyway.

A word of support for trisher’s posts and despair at the attitudes displayed by Davidhs.
By the way Davidhs, it’s Portugese not Greek courts.

I don’t know enough about Portugese police investigations or the way victims are treated there but this case is a travesty of justice. Very few rape trials take place here and of those that happen, the guilty findings are few. Cases only go to court if there’s a high likelihood of success. The system remains weighted against women. I’m not mentioning male victims though I’m sure the same applies.
In this case, the young woman was traumatised by her experience of what she alleges was gang rape. She was then further traumatised by the police investigation and trial. It’s good to see our government stepping in to support her.
Incidentally, even if the young men were telling the truth, which frankly I don’t believe, their subsequent behaviour was disgusting

Your daughters would have very little hope of justice as you would know by the conviction rates.