To Believe the British Girl in Cyprus Version of Events

David, quite part from this particular case, I am astonished at your attitude to judicial process.
you said had you been called as a juryman it would take a lot from the defence to convince that the defendant was not guilty because you know the police and CPS only bring very strong cases to court.
So the onus of rebuttal is on the defence, acc to you.
I presume you are in the UK. surely everyone here knows the legal maxim, innocent until proved guilty. you have inverted this, turned it on its head. even with the judge's admonition, it would be hard for you to mentally step away from this idee fixe. I find it quite alarming.
if you are aged over 70 yrs you will not be called. phew.

welbeck you can still be called for jury service over the age of 70, but you can ask to be excused on grounds of age.

Thank you Callistemon, I had not realised the age in England and Wales had been raised to 75, since 01.12.16.

how old is David...

I think it's very sad that this young woman didn't value herself and keep herself safe. Really sad.

I don’t even have words for how wrong you are

So much judgement of women here. I’m no longer shocked though. I do wish to be shocked one day.

Women are whores and boys will be boys and all

So very, very sad for all daughters and grand daughters

trisher, don't insult Neanderthals. That's just as bad as anything you're complaining about, being based on assumptions and prejudice.

Innocence until proven guilty only seems to be used in one direction on this thread. What about the innocence of the boys and men? That hasn't been proven either.

And if a woman's behaviour should not affect her right to say no, which I agree with, then why should a boy's or young man's behaviour on being acquitted be held against them? You can't have one rule for women and a different one for men.

I meant their guilt had not been proven.

Baggs, there hasn't been a trial of the young men, unfortunately, the trial has been of the young woman who alleges she was gang raped after consenting to sex with one young man she thought she was having a holiday romance with.
The reason so few trials of allegations of rape take place in this country is because without independent evidence to support the allegation, the CPS is reluctant to prosecute. It's something of a minefield for police/cps and certainly for alleged victims and alleged abusers. This trial was in Cyprus (sorry not Portugal as I wrongly said earlier) - even more difficult for those of us in the Uk to understand as it is a different culture, different criminal procedures.
My view is that some young people behave badly. Some young people are daft enough to believe the scenes shown on the pornography that is too easily available, show sexual behaviour that is 'normal'. I'd be ashamed of any young man in my family who behaved as this group did. I'd worry about any young woman who willingly had sex with 10 young men, in sequence. I suspect that the young woman here is the one being more honest.

Among those who were called to testify at the court hearing was a prominent Cypriot forensic pathalogist who had examined the young woman and his findings confirmed that her injuries were consistent with rape. It seems that advocates for her defence were simply shut down.

It appears the statement that the woman was co-erced into signing after hours of intense presssurised questioning, without representaton, was the police account of the matter and not her words.

Surely filming such a violation, without the consent of the woman, she is allegedly heard, asking the companions of the boy she was in bed with to "get out" and then afterwards shouting for them to "stop" is illegal? The fact that they have shared that film with others seems to have gone unchallenged. Was the footage even shown in court? The case in any event was not to prove whether they were guilty or innocent but to prove that she was complicit in the charge of "public mischief".

"Innocent until proven guilty" it seems that these men didn't have to prove anything, the Cypriot authorities simply let them go after some questioning as I understand it. Cynics might say that's because Israel and Cyprus have some joint venture involving gas pipe lines in the offing and a couple of the accused have parents with influence.

Sorry Baggs and apologies to all the Neanderthals out there!

Innocence until proven guilty only seems to be used in one direction on this thread. What about the innocence of the boys and men? That hasn't been proven either.

No, their innocence was presumed by the men in the so-called justice system in Cyprus and they were allowed to return home to celebrations.

However, in the eyes of many (and not just in this country) their innocence has not been proven. The shadow of guilt will follow them throughout their lives as gang rapists.
If they had been able to prove their innocence in court they would have been vindicated.

even more difficult for those of us in the Uk to understand as it is a different culture, different criminal procedures.
Cyprus claims that its justice system is based on the British one, Iam64

No, their innocence was presumed by the men in the so-called justice system in Cyprus

How do you know this?

Maybe Greek law is different in that respect, false accusation being held more serious.
This is not Greece. Cypriot law is based on the British system, incorporating Ottoman systems but moreover EU law will supersede Cypriot law in some cases.

This case could go much further than a flawed case presented by prejudiced police to a district court in Cyprus presided over by a biased judge.

How do you know this?

Arrested but not charged so presumed innocent without having to refute the allegations and present their case in court - despite evidence to the contrary.

Which you've read in newspapers, heard on radio/TV.

Do we actually know anything about this case other than the basic story outline? I suggest not.

Which doesn't diminish my sympathy for the young woman.

If the woman was filmed telling the young men to "get out" that might be regarded as evidence of rape, Cyprus having signed up to the EU directive that rape is any case of non-consensual sex without the necessity for the involvement of violence. Arguably whatever happens in a Cyprus court this woman should be able to access the EU Courts
M.C. v Bulgaria: A landmark ruling that established that lack of violence does not mean consent
In 2004, the European Court on Human Rights (hereinafter: the Court) established that the decisive factor to establish the crime of rape was the lack of consent rather than proof of force and resistance of the survivor.41
Of course it's a protection British women will soon lose.

Terribull, a very good post.
We have gone over all the ifs, buts, whys, and wherefores on this thread, but the nub of it seems to me to be a young woman agreed to sex with one man, the sex was filmed by his friends, three other men then had sex with her despite her shouting ‘No’ and when examined she had injuries consistent with rape.
In my opinion, the judge’s behaviour was vile, but apparently allowable in Cyprus. If his behaviour was as has been reported, then he set out to belittle and humiliate the girl further.
The girl was tried for ‘public mischief’ whatever that is! She was denied a lawyer for eight hours of questioning, her statement appears to have been written by someone else. She has been imprisoned for four weeks, she has not been allowed to leave the country. Her family are not rich, they are crowd funding to raise money for her legal bills.
Where are the British authorities in all this? What help and support has she received from The British High Commission in Nicosia?
All of this is happening in the EU. Being in the EU certainly doesn’t seem to have offered this girl any protection whatsoever.
Finally, the men were allowed to return home. Why? It would appear to me that the police/authorities in Cyprus have decided, without any trial, that the men were innocent. How can the police/authorities make this decision? Why was the evidence ignored? So many questions have not been answered. Is this justice Cypriot style? The whole matter is appalling from beginning to end.

I truly hope you’re correct Trisher, and that this girl can, extremely belatedly, receive justice from the EU courts. She deserves justice.
However, with the men already back in Israel, it’s unlikely any rape prosecution will take place.

Which you've read in newspapers, heard on radio/TV.
As have you.

I read a report from a woman reporter who has followed the case closely and was in the court, heard expert witnesses dismissed as 'unreliable' and gave a factual account of the chronology in this case.

Her report appeared to be unembellished and factual.

"Do we know anything about this case" Well presumably journalists didn't make up the fact that the judge wasn't unbiased and came across as hectoring the young woman, shouting at her on several occasions.

We also know that the parents/friends and family of the men greeted them in Israel with Champagne, whilst they were chanting "The British woman is a whore" which doesn't prove anything I know except some hideous gloating. It does make me question their parents perspective though Even if my son were a bystander I wouldn't be greeting him with Champagne, I'd be deeply ashamed and might feel the need to go the full Margaret Thatcher and hangbag him on meeting up

The young woman has been assessed by a psychologist as suffering from post traumatic stress, also not used as evidence in the court hearing.

This case is very distressing for many reasons apart from the alleged gang rape, most of which have been discussed already. The first thing I thought when I read of this case was that the Israeli men were of important families, had been released because of this, and the reports of the champagne celebrations and heroes welcome they received have, to my mind, confirmed this. I have a son and had he been accused of such a gross offence, had he thought it 'banter' to burst in on a friend having sex, and then had sex with the same girl, whether consensual or not, I would be disgusted and ashamed of him, and seriously questioning where my parenting had gone wrong. I would not be welcoming him with champagne. The other thing that struck me was the disappointing number of people on here who were victim blaming, accusing the girl

Which you've read in newspapers, heard on radio/TV, as have you

Yes, but I'm not assuming guilt as others appear to be doing. Foreign Office is being very careful what they say. I think that's wise.

Her report appeared to be unembellished and factual.

"appeared to be"

You either believe in innocence until guilt is proved or you don't. I don't think we are a position to judge anything.

I notice the girl's mother is being circumspect about what she says too. Perhaps a little circumspection on here would be a good idea.

I too think the greeting and welcome the boys and men received when they got home was in disgusting taste, but it does not prove their guilt.