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for Expats in the EU who voted remain, to be relly upset and angry at neighbours and 'friends' who have voted to leave?

(293 Posts)
jura2 Sun 26-Jan-20 15:02:46

British expats (immigrants) in the EU are all going to be massively affected by Brexit- in 100s of ways- healthcare, driving licences, pensions, exchange rate loss, etc, etc. - whether they voted Remain or Leave. It is really going to affect their relationship with those who voted for those changes that will impact daily lives in such a significant way- especially in those ommunities where there are large numbers living in close proximity.

jura2 Sun 26-Jan-20 15:05:46

Sorry 'really'.

One example - can you imagine having to retake your driving licence in full, in the local language - instead of being able to just exchange your UK licence for one in the country of residence- as will be the case in Spain from January 31st?

ladymuck Sun 26-Jan-20 15:07:26

Was is the point of going on about it?

jura2 Sun 26-Jan-20 15:13:25

Spain for one has made it abundently clear that no British driving license held by British citizens living in Spain will be exchanged unless they submitted their application to exchangetheir British driving license for a Spanish one before January 31st 2020.

Quote from the following DGT - Trafico link:

The DGT implements a protocol that allows you to exchange your UK permit to the Spanish equivalent under the same conditions prior to BREXIT , without having to wait for the signing of a new agreement between countries, or having to obtain a new one Spanish driving license.
To do this, you must have a driver's license of the United Kingdom, have your habitual residence in Spain and submit the application before January 31 , 2020 . In this way, whatever happens that day, you will be guaranteed to attend to the exchange of your permit for a period of 9 months from the BREXIT date.

From the DVLA - Driving in the EU after Brexit: driving license exchange website


You should exchange your driving licence before the UK leaves the EU.


You should exchange your driving licence before the UK leaves the EU.


You should exchange your driving licence before the UK leaves the EU.


You should exchange your driving licence before the UK leaves the EU.


You should exchange your driving licence before the UK leaves the EU.


You should exchange your driving licence before the UK leaves the EU.


You should exchange your driving licence before the UK leaves the EU.


You should exchange your driving licence before the UK leaves the EU.


You should exchange your driving licence before the UK leaves the EU.

Would you like to re-take your licence in full if you lived abroad. I had to when I came to UK before the EU - sailed through as my English was good, I was 19 and a very confident driver. Can you imagine doing it in, say, Spanish- aged 70+?

This thread is about AIBU to feel really beyond annoyed with Brits in your community who voted for this.

paddyanne Sun 26-Jan-20 15:16:20

Jura I know people who live on the continent who voted leave..seems they didn't think it would affect them!!One told me he voted leave to get all the "foreigners" out of the Uk .Couldn't make it up could you?
I'm more concerned about the Brexit bill article 38 which dismisses the sovereingty of the Scottish people and declares the ENGLISH parliament to be sovereign.Soevereignty that has existed for hundreds of years, long before the union existed.I suppose thats BOJO showing his bully boy tactics win.85% of MP's are English so there no damn way we can contest that article and win with our 59 even supposing the 7 tories vote with the rest.There are a lot of very angry people in Scotland over this move

sodapop Sun 26-Jan-20 15:25:03

We moved to France before all this started and never imagined for a moment that the UK would leave Europe. It's done now and we have to work with the changes, the world moves on for good or ill and we have to move with it.
In answer to your question jura2 of course I was upset but people voted as they did because they felt strongly about things. I felt strongly too but the vote went against me, I don't bear a grudge because of that.

janeainsworth Sun 26-Jan-20 15:26:25

I don’t understand what you’re asking, jura

Your thread title reads Am I being unreasonable for expats in the EU to be really upset and angry at neighbours and ‘friends’ who have voted to leave?

Do you mean
a) that it’s unreasonable for British people living in the EU to be angry with people who voted leave, even if they are neighbours and ‘friends’ (what’s the difference between a friend and a ‘friend’, by the way?)
b) that it’s unreasonable for you to be angry with leave voters
c) that it’s reasonable for British people living in the EU to be angry with people who voted leave, even if they are neighbours and ‘friends’
d) that it’s reasonable for you to be angry with leave voters
e) that it’s unreasonable to be angry and upset with Remain voting expats who are upset and angry
f) none of the above?

What is the point of being upset and angry?
Life will go on.
We will probably all be worse off in different ways, not just expats in EU countries.
But being upset and angry helps no one.

SirChenjin Sun 26-Jan-20 15:29:35

This is only the start of it - I’m sure that there’s going to be more than a few harsh realities ahead of us as the fallout from Brexit begins to affect individuals in practical ways. I hope those of voted for <vague wave of hand> Brexit feel it’s all worth it in the end and I hope the rest of us don’t have to suffer to much.

SirChenjin Sun 26-Jan-20 15:30:00


Fennel Sun 26-Jan-20 15:30:20

When we were in France all the british people we knew had already changed to french driving licenses. we both did years ago.
There's a way round the health insurance problem too, though some people might have to pay, as most french do anyway.
The only thing that I would worry about is the unpredictable exchange rate, if income is from the UK.
We didn't leave because of Brexit.

janeainsworth Sun 26-Jan-20 15:34:42

This thread is about AIBU to feel really beyond annoyed with Brits in your community who voted for this

Ah I see you answered my question before I posted.
Yes, I think you are being unreasonable, not least because you’ve posted many times that you’re a Swiss National.
But also because you are wrong to place the blame on voters, who were misled by a cleverly coordinated Leave campaign.
The referendum should never have taken place.
It should never have been a binary choice, it wasn’t legally binding anyway and it should have needed at least a 70% majority to be acted on.
So be angry with those responsible, if you must be angry.

jura2 Sun 26-Jan-20 15:45:06

Was not talking about myself, that the 10s of 1000s in the EU who find their rights will be severely affected...
Having dual nationality is indeed useful for us- but it makes NO difference to the exchange rates, our pension rights or loss of healthcare cover, etc- My OH is British, and I became British in 73 - so being a Swiss National as well is truly neither her nor there.

Of course jane, this will also affect British people (and EU migrants living there) in the UK - but can't you see that there is a big difference between UK residents voting for Brexit- and those who have made the decision to go and live in the EU and are resident there - availed themselves of Free Movement and all the benefits- but then voted to deprive others form such- as well as themselves, their friends and neighbours too.

There is indeed NO point in being upset- as such - but can you blame those people from being more than annoyed and angry about expats like them voting for it. This post made after watching a documentary made recently about expats on the Costa in Spain who voted Leave - mainly because of 'too many foreigners in the UK who are poorly integrated' - and can't even see the hypocrisy of it all.

Pantglas2 Sun 26-Jan-20 15:51:15

All my British friends living in Spain permanently exchanged theirs in the last couple of years and those of us with a ‘foot in two campos’ as it were, got the Permit applicable to Spain for a fiver from the Post Office.

Thanks for reminding me jura2, need to renew mine before we return end of March!

jura2 Sun 26-Jan-20 15:55:31

There is no point in being angry at your neighbours who voted for it - and yet, would you not be angry if you had to retake your driving licence in full, in Spanish, or Italian, etc.

If you lost your heatlhcare cover just when you need it most.

Lost your right to move to another EU country if your children moved there, for instance. Etc, etc.

Pantglas, are you sure that Permit applicable to Spain will still be valid after 31st of Jan? Or after 31st of December: There is no guarantee it will.

blondenana Sun 26-Jan-20 16:10:06

My son is coming here on the 31st to deal with a house sale
I don't know how things will be for him when he returns to Spain in 2 weeks time
I doubt he has even thought about it, re;driving licence
I have no idea if his driving licence will be valid for him to drive in Spain on a UK licence

Callistemon Sun 26-Jan-20 16:17:51

I suppose that the proportion of MPs to population for England is about right, though, paddyanne, if, as you say, 85% of MPs represent English constituencies. Just under 84% of the population of the UK lives in England (although a proportion of those will not be English).

Scotland has 8.4% of the population and just under 9% of MPs plus their own Parliament
Wales 4.8% of population and 6.15% shock plus the Welsh Assembly
NI 2.9% and 2.77%

As that did not seem to be feasible, I checked and about 82% of MPs represent English constituencies.

It would seem to he a fair representation, although Wales is slightly over-represented.

M0nica Sun 26-Jan-20 16:19:22

I cannot understand why anyone could even raise a mild harumph over someone near and dear, or further away and less dear voting on the opposite side in any election, whether for a favourite biscuit, local councillor or brexit.

So, someone voted differently to you, its called democracy.

GagaJo Sun 26-Jan-20 16:26:17

There were some obnoxious British idiots in Spain, while I lived there, who voted leave. Much as I don't WANT to leave the EU, I'm bl**dy glad they're going to be in dire straights. Serves the idiots right.

Pantglas2 Sun 26-Jan-20 16:38:57

Wales is my permanent residence jura2 so don’t need to change to Spanish DL and the IDpermit covers us for olidays I.e no more than 90 days in 180etc.

kittylester Sun 26-Jan-20 16:42:51

As MOnica says it's because we have a democracy. No-one has any right to be cross because someone else voted differently. There wasnt just one vote in it.

It's just tough.

Eglantine21 Sun 26-Jan-20 16:44:15

People who voted leave did so because they didn’t like the life they had, living in Britain as part of the European community.

So I do think it’s unreasonable to be angry with someone for wanting a better life for themselves and their children and using their vote to make it happen.

I dont suppose the comfort of people who’d chosen to leave the country came into the equation when they voted for a life they wanted in Britain.

Why should it?

jura2 Sun 26-Jan-20 16:46:24

Monica, I don't know if you can't, or won't - see the difference. An Election is for 4 years- often much less as we know. Brexit is for a very long time, with no way of voting the decision out a few years later.

The point of this thread, is that many British expats (immigrants) in the EU can sort of understand why some friends and relatives 'back home' would vote to Leave - but not their neighbours and 'friends/acquaintances' who have made the move to the EU. Especially those who were warned about possible consequences, and are now complaining that it is actually affecting them badly. Can you not understand that this would be hugely annoying and much more to others.

Pantglas, so it does not affect you- so far. There is no garantee it won't in the future.

Callistemon Sun 26-Jan-20 16:46:40

The area I live in has gone against the vote for everything momentous that has happened over the last 20+ years.
But that is democracy.

jura2 Sun 26-Jan-20 16:48:25

Kitty, yes, it's 'tough' - but expats who voted for this really cannot be surprised if their friends, acquaintances and neighbours who haven't - are not going to take kindly to them now whinging because they are being affected.

Chestnut Sun 26-Jan-20 16:50:20

All you are doing by creating this thread is stoking up more hatred and division which we have already had enough of. Just suck it up and learn to adapt to change.
If the predictions about population growth and climate change come true this will be the least of your worries!