Veganism

Davidhs wrote:
"Antibiotics are only used under veterinary supervision to cure an illness or injury."

But animals that are fattened or used for breeding in factory farms are more likely to be diseased due to inadequate spaces and ventilation. This is why antibiotics are used to fatten otherwise unhealthy animals .

Do British supermarkets still sell eggs from caged hens?

Anniezzz
“There is plenty of information out there about misuse of antibiotics on farm animals and their use as growth promoters. For instance :”

This is how desperate the emotional anti farming lobby are
This research was done in 2003 in the USA .
Admittedly there are growth promoters of all types used in the US along with different welfare, hygiene and environmental standards there.

British food products do not use growth promoters

British livestock are raised in healthy well ventilated conditions, because if they were not farmers would not make a living. Some of the units are quite large, but these are the best managed units, producing premium food, under very close supermarket supervision.

Every drug used has to be justified approved and audited

I don’t think the big supermarkets sell eggs from caged hens, barn eggs or free range would be the norm, eggs from caged hens are mostly used for processing, a lot of these would be imported.

British supermarkets still sell caged hen eggs- although many have pledged to phase them out - 43% of Tesco eggs are still from caged birds.
Eco friendly alternative to leather are increasingly coming on the market. The leather industry is a huge polluter in terms of toxic chemicals etc. The key thing is , whatever we buy in terms.of footwear and clothing, we should consume less and make it last longer.

davidhs it sounds wonderful but my point was the difference between ideals set out in legislation and reality. I could show you some farms near me where emaciated cattle live in filthy conditions, where lame sheep are left to hobble as best they can, where rubbish is piled high, where obvious illness is untended. Try standing in a feed merchant's store and listen to a few conversations. I also know welfare inspectors and hear their stories. There are regular exposes by organisations you probably ignore because you want to think differently. The countryside is filled with bigots, some farmers are fine, I wouldn't like to say they are a minority but I wish i didn't know as much as I do.

There are regular exposes by organisations you probably ignore because you want to think differently. The countryside is filled with bigots, some farmers are fine, I wouldn't like to say they are a minority but I wish i didn't know as much as I do

But dont vegans ignore just as much when they source their food? They rely on food brought across the world. It is not well husbanded. It is full of chemicals which are put onto the soil to encourage growth. You dont see the condidtions because it isnt in this country. You turn a blind eye to the cost of manufacturing and processing in order to provide you with the substitutes you have. It is not economically sustainable.

Wouldnt it be better instead to campaign more for better standards locally? It improve the lives of animals here, near to home where you see them? I do not see what you see by the way and I live in the country with farms all around me as it happens.

Are you any less a bigot because you turn your blind eye becaause the problem is thousands of miles away instead?

Anniezzz

That is a distorted view, some pets are mistreated, some children are mistreated, the vulnerable are mistreated, nobody is going to defend neglecting animals. The reality is that your food has never been produced in better conditions, nor to higher standards.

Instead of being prejudiced you should get out there with an open mind and see what really happens.

No vegans don’t “ignore where they source their food” aprilrose . I would suggest that vegans are more concerned than others about the provenance of their food. To suggest that it’s only vegans who eat imported food when 60% of food in this country is imported is disingenuous. I do try to eat fresh, locally produced food. If imported, I would rather it was imported from nearby countries and not transported half way around the world and I do check labels.

David's why don't you READ what I wrote, throwing insults just shows how limited you are in your knowledge. How many farmers do you know?

Davidhs, have you never lived, worked or stayed on a farm? Probably not. It's nothing like Countryfile. Most people would be horrified by cannibalism or slavery - yet humans (mammals) are conveniently blind to the suffering of other animals:

www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/animals-used-food-factsheets/vegetarianism-environment/

hetty some people believe that farms are like picture books with mother hen and her chicks and smiling pigs and cows. To think that there are no caged hens in this country is also showing a lack of knowledge. I think some want to believe that everything is marvellous just to make themselves feel better about their choices. If realistic pictures of some conditions on intensive farms and slaughterhouses were posted people would throw their hands up in horror. That’s not to mention what happens to male chicks or male calves etc.

Please may I give my first impression before reading 9 pages because I have to go and do something else? Thanks.

You are not being unreasonable. Actually, Teachers have no right to promote any lifestyle choices above others apart from safe sex and anything to do with the law. Possibly if it is part of the curriculum and relevant they may teach the science of eating meat and that it has been found recently that we do not need to eat as much as once we thought - so long as the scientific evidence is there to support this.

I was a Teacher and taught the whole age-range from pre-school to University. I do not agree with Teachers giving their personal views on anything, they must stick to teaching what they are supposed to teach. In personal tuition and personal care, however that is carried out, the teachers must not give their views and beliefs but support the child bearing in mind that child's background. Some pupils may have parents who are Farmers, Stock Men or Butchers.

Some of these Teachers need to consider what the countryside would look like if we stopped raising sheep and cattle for meat. The fields would be empty. Maybe there would be a few such animals in a zoo. Animals which are well cared for and humanely slaughtered with no stress by being stunned away from the slaughter place do not suffer and have good lives.

Please though, join me in writing to your MP to ask that we ban the practice of non-stun slaughter. It is inhumane and barbaric.

You may be interested to know I do not eat meat. I do drink milk.

vegansrock. You are absolutely right. I am trying to campaign to raise awareness about the absolutely barbaric inhumanity of the destruction of "useless" male chicks and calves. As I said above we need to stop the evil practice of slaughtering animals without first stunning them as well.

anniezzz09. Then phone the RSPCA. Take photos.

I'm a retired teacher too and I don't think it's a case of 'brainwashing' at all. Saving the planet and environmental concerns are current mainstream topics to be explored. Teachers have to present the facts.

Our consumerism, dietary habits and lifestyles are, quite simply, unsustainable. There will be major changes in the near future - or there is no potential future for life on Earth.

Lack of animal welfare is typical of low value meat and dairy because animal welfare costs more.
Meat from animals which have been bred, fattened and slaughtered by an expert local slaughterman is more expensive than factory farmed meat.

Most people cannot afford the artisan meat I describe and think they have to eat factory farmed meat, if they think at all.

Since most people are relatively poor they therefore need to learn how to eat well without buying low welfare meat.

Yehbutnobut Thu 27-Feb-20 08:16:04
Exactly! Thanks for the excellent explanation.

Spot on, Alexa. Most people buy based on price, therefore creating more demand for cruelly-produced food. I love being vegan and can state with certainty that I consume no pus or fecal matter with my food - really nice to know!

Milk with pus anyone?
www.vivahealth.org.uk/brexit-and-pus-milk

Beef mince with poop?
www.businessinsider.com/poop-bacteria-in-all-ground-beef-us-consumer-reports-2015-8?r=US&IR=T

Bbarb Tue 25-Feb-20 18:47:07
While I agree that adults need to be aware of the processes which are used in our meat and dairy industries, I cannot understand what made a Teacher show a recording of abattoirs to 9 year old children.

There was a time when we could be satisfied that cattle and sheep would be stunned before slaughter. Thus the last thing they would know would be the touch of something on their head. This would be done while the animal was calm. My father was a Farmer and said that sheep and cows went to the abattoir calmly and did not know any stress. He said that pigs, however, could smell the blood and would start to scream some miles before getting there. I stopped eating pig products from that day.

Our abattoirs have been down graded to allow non stun slaughter which now means the animals suffer terribly. They see their companions killed, they feel pain and they are in terror. The British Veterinary Association and the RSPCA asked the Government to stop this. The Government will not. Please write to your MP about asking that we stop this barbaric practice.

Why are the Govt not making it mandatory to stun animals?

I thought that was the law?

Hetty58
But does presenting the facts to 9 year olds mean showing them a film of an abattoir and leaving them in terror of eating meat, accusing other members of the family as "murderers"?

It is one thing to believe that "Our consumerism, dietary habits and lifestyles are, quite simply, unsustainable." but quite another to frighten 9 year olds and make them feel responsible for the changes necessary. The changes are needed at a much higher level. I agree with awareness of caring for the planet, nobody could argue against that, but to upset 9 year olds about the food their parents give them seems very cruel.

Tillybelle, I think the abattoir film was a step too far. I do believe that children have a right to know exactly how their food is produced, though.

They should also be allowed to choose (within reason) what they eat. The changes are needed by governments and at a parental level.

If people believe slaughtering animals is done “humanely” then showing it to children shouldn’t be a problem should it?