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Illegals - such a lovely description, don't you think?

(70 Posts)
Riverwalk Fri 10-Apr-20 14:25:00

Especially when you want them towed back to sea!

I would have hoped that with our current semi-lockdown situation that we as grandparents would have a teesny weensy bit of sympathy with those who are fleeing famine, war, dire economies, whatever

Let's hope that we never have another war or a terrible disaster and have to flee and find sanctuary elsewhere - and wherever we wash-up we are dismissed as 'illegals'.

EllanVannin Fri 10-Apr-20 14:31:02

It's not them that I'd be having towed out to sea but our own home-grown " illegals " in the sense that they make claims for everything that opens and shuts without having done a days work in their lives. Illegal claiming of benefits. Fraudsters.

I'm sure we all know one or two of them.

MaizieD Fri 10-Apr-20 14:37:46

I don't know any, EV.

Do you know what (in 'normal' times) the percentage of benefit fraud is?

GagaJo Fri 10-Apr-20 14:42:06

The 'illegal' I know lives in a big house, with other property she lets. Appears to be a pillar of the community. Combined income well into six figures. Except they don't declare a lot of it. Costing the country a lot more than any poor benefit claimant in lost taxes.

Ilovecheese Fri 10-Apr-20 14:42:10

I don't know any either EllanVannin

Hetty58 Fri 10-Apr-20 14:44:37

What is wrong with people? Why all the nasty comments aimed at refugees, benefit claimants, random anyone really, when we're coping with a very difficult time?

It seems that a national emergency brings out the very best in some people - yet others show their true (vile) colours and go on the attack. Shame on them!

vampirequeen Fri 10-Apr-20 14:54:55

I don't know anyone who fiddles benefits however if you do then you have a duty to report that person.

I'm more concerned about tax avoiders who find loopholes in order to avoid paying taxes that could be used to fund education, transport, social care and the NHS. Of course the government won't close the loopholes because a lot of MPs either use them, have friends who use them, have donors who use them or are involved with companies that use them.

GagaJo Fri 10-Apr-20 14:57:44

Exactly, VQ. The odious Rees Mogg, with his tax haven accounts.

GrannieIggle Fri 10-Apr-20 15:01:38

I don't know any illegals or benefit fraud people either, EV

MaisieD Do you have any figures about normal times benefit fraud please?

(It would be good to know also the minute percentage it is of the amount of evaded taxes, especially by multinational companies).

yorkie20 Sat 11-Apr-20 10:18:29

I dont know if these people where I live are 'illegals' but I do see them EVERY day sat outside costa coffee with one coffee/drink between them. They are male and they can be found sat there most of the day. Surely they cant all be working a night shift?
This is a small island and we just cant let/bring people here we have enough of our own to support.

EllanVannin Sat 11-Apr-20 10:29:28

Take off your rose-coloured specs and read the papers now and again about those who've swindled the government by making fraudulent claims.

I see no " illegals " where I am, so they must live somewhere but it's not on the streets. Mainly towns and cities I expect. It's the fault of the governments allowing them in with no homes to go to. What did they think was going to happen once they were in the country ?

GagaJo Sat 11-Apr-20 10:31:17

Sun? Star? Mail?

EllanVannin Sat 11-Apr-20 10:31:27

Anyway, it's not the " illegals " who brought or who are bringing/spreading the virus.

Chestnut Sat 11-Apr-20 10:38:57

Well a lot of people are still coming across on boats and not being tested for the virus EllanVannin. They have been mixing freely with other refugees so could all be infected.

GagaJo Sat 11-Apr-20 10:51:04

A lot of Brits coming back on planes, not being tested.

Lets face it, NO ONE is being tested really, unless they're seriously ill, a government minister or royal.

Despite WHO saying that testing was the way forward.

petunia Sat 11-Apr-20 11:04:15

I believe that the apparent intolerance shown toward “illegal immigrants” is that everyone who reaches these shores through a creative route is classed as illegal. We are encouraged to think this way by aspects of the media. But the term covers many types of potential immigrant. I'm thinking here, refugee, asylum seekers, people outstaying or misusing their legally obtained visa , the economic migrant hoping to slip quietly into the country.

I'm sure there are more descriptions. But they all become “illegal immigrants” to all forms of media and viewed in the same negative way because of the lack of clarity. While we should be welcoming to some and understanding of difficulties , we should perhaps be cautious of the motivations of others.

Davidhs Sat 11-Apr-20 11:05:58

“What did they think was going to happen once they were in the country ?”

Most will have friends or family to go to and those that are trafficked will have places to stay, migrants, legal or illegal have contacts here. As individuals I have every sympathy with their plight, they are escaping horrible lives with no hope. However poor their work is or their accommodation in the UK it is better than their home country or the conditions on their journey.
That does not mean that I support unrestricted entry because that is a threat to our own culture and life

Chewbacca Sat 11-Apr-20 11:19:38

There was a report on the BBC website today about how migrants in Calais are absolutely terrified of catching the virus because of poor living conditions there. Whilst they're afraid of the journey across the channel in a small boat, they're more afraid of staying in Calais and catching the virus. But some migrants who have safely made it to the UK have said that since Covid, their lives here haven't been much better than in the camps in Calais. Opportunities for cash in hand work has dried up, transport systems aren't easily available and so travelling to friends and families across the country is more difficult and places in homeless shelters are even more scarce now than before. But they still feel it's worth risking their lives to get here and take their chance.

Hetty58 Sat 11-Apr-20 11:23:17

The vast majority of 'illegal immigrants' have overstayed their work or study visa.

Those arriving by boat are very few.

The virus is out there, in our communities already. Plenty of people are flying back home, advised to isolate for two weeks (not quarantined) and offered no help with shopping!

Davidhs Sat 11-Apr-20 11:27:39

No work in the black economy, no transport, pretty grim at present everything is shut, that’s pretty much the same overseas as well.

Chewbacca Sat 11-Apr-20 11:44:05

The mayor in Calais has been trying to get as many of the migrants as possible to move to temporary shelters so that they can at least have access to sanitation, hand wash, showers etc, but very few have taken up the offer because they want to continue trying to get to the uk. But when, not if, COVID breaks out in the Calais migrant camps, the mortality rate will be enormous.

Urmstongran Sat 11-Apr-20 12:20:50

We have rules for a reason. All countries do.

vampirequeen Sat 11-Apr-20 13:17:13

Just to give this debate some perspective.

2018/19 Benefit fraud and accidental overpayment (mistakes made by the DWP) cos the country £4.1billion. However they managed to underpay some people by accident or the person not claiming £2billion. The total cost of the fraud and errors was 1.6% of the benefits budget.

Post 2015 Tax. Tax avoidance/evasion/mistakes cost this country £35billion or 5.6% of the total tax bill. However this doesn't take into account the £billions that are going unpaid by major companies so the figure is really much higher.

2019 Illegal immigrants e.g. overstayers, trafficked sex workers, spouses, children and desperate people who try to cross the Channel in inflatables and dinghies. Between 800K and 1.2 million people (1.2 to 1.8% of the UK population). Over 98% of the people in this country are here legally.

Hetty58 Sat 11-Apr-20 13:20:12

Rules are not much use unless they're enforced, though.

Witzend Sat 11-Apr-20 13:27:53

People often say that benefit fraud is only a tiny percentage of big business/rich people’s tax dodging, etc. Which may well be true.
However I don’t see how anyone can actually know with any accuracy the level of benefit fraud. By definition, the only cases that are known about are those that have been found out. Usually after a lot of investigation by under-resourced and probably hard pressed council staff.

Judging by fairly frequent MN posts on this topic (Should I report my neighbour?’ etc., the overwhelming response is nearly always, Don’t! It’s none of your business, etc.
So how often it’s reported, even when it’s known about, I do wonder.